The first human ovum was discovered in 1828. See "Clinical In Vitro Fertilization." Wood C, Trounson A., Springer-Verlag, Berlin 1984, Page 6. The existence of a mammalian ovum was discovered by Karl Ernst von Baer in 1827. See "An Introduction to the History of Medicine, with Medical Chronology" By Fielding Hudson Garrison p. 474.
Prior to that there is no evidence that any human being knew an internal ovum even existed, much less defined their word "pregnancy" by it. That includes Hebrews.
Is that not relevant because I'm not a Hebrew scholar?? Do I need to be one in order to ask you to produce one shred of evidence that Hebrews knew what an egg was? I think *you* had better be a Hebrew scholar before saying things as historically absurd as that the people in Moses day knew what an egg was. So far the only evidence you can produce is "they knew how to have babies." I'm amazed to have to tell you this, but knowledge of the existence of an internal female ovum is not required for reproduction.
Even the English words "conception" and "pregnant" didn't even have anything to do with ovums 200 years ago... because until the microscope was invented in the 17th century we didn't even know an ovum even existed!! And you are actually sitting there with a straight face telling me that if I would've asked Moses what "harah" meant he would've said, "It is when the sperm meets the egg." Give me a break! You don't have to be a Hebrew scholar to know the translation of the ancient Hebrew word for "pregnant" is not going to as scientifically precise as you are claiming it is. Plus, even with all our scientific knowledge modern English medical dictionaries define conception in multiple ways (fertilization of the egg by the sperm, or implantation of the zygote in the uterus).
Ah, and now contraception is declared "off the topic" of my thread 10 pages into it, even though it has been part of the thread since being mentioned in the first post and has been mentioned on just about every page!? Fine, I'll respect your decision. But I will say this: It would look *a lot* better if you could have a moderator who is not personally involved in the thread make that call. I strongly suspect the reason that contraception is suddenly off topic in this thread is because you were not able to respond when you asked, "What kind of abortion does the Bible advocate?," and I responded, "What kind of contraception does the Bible advocate? The timing method? Physical barriers?" You can call it "off topic", but the fact is it is a very relevant response to your question. It is also a topic that is very relevant to this thread in general. A huge number of Christians don't believe in and don't practice contraception *exactly* because of the implications they feel it has on the human life cycle (ending life or ending potential life early).
Prior to that there is no evidence that any human being knew an internal ovum even existed, much less defined their word "pregnancy" by it. That includes Hebrews.
Is that not relevant because I'm not a Hebrew scholar?? Do I need to be one in order to ask you to produce one shred of evidence that Hebrews knew what an egg was? I think *you* had better be a Hebrew scholar before saying things as historically absurd as that the people in Moses day knew what an egg was. So far the only evidence you can produce is "they knew how to have babies." I'm amazed to have to tell you this, but knowledge of the existence of an internal female ovum is not required for reproduction.
Even the English words "conception" and "pregnant" didn't even have anything to do with ovums 200 years ago... because until the microscope was invented in the 17th century we didn't even know an ovum even existed!! And you are actually sitting there with a straight face telling me that if I would've asked Moses what "harah" meant he would've said, "It is when the sperm meets the egg." Give me a break! You don't have to be a Hebrew scholar to know the translation of the ancient Hebrew word for "pregnant" is not going to as scientifically precise as you are claiming it is. Plus, even with all our scientific knowledge modern English medical dictionaries define conception in multiple ways (fertilization of the egg by the sperm, or implantation of the zygote in the uterus).
Ah, and now contraception is declared "off the topic" of my thread 10 pages into it, even though it has been part of the thread since being mentioned in the first post and has been mentioned on just about every page!? Fine, I'll respect your decision. But I will say this: It would look *a lot* better if you could have a moderator who is not personally involved in the thread make that call. I strongly suspect the reason that contraception is suddenly off topic in this thread is because you were not able to respond when you asked, "What kind of abortion does the Bible advocate?," and I responded, "What kind of contraception does the Bible advocate? The timing method? Physical barriers?" You can call it "off topic", but the fact is it is a very relevant response to your question. It is also a topic that is very relevant to this thread in general. A huge number of Christians don't believe in and don't practice contraception *exactly* because of the implications they feel it has on the human life cycle (ending life or ending potential life early).
DHK said:You are definitely grasping at straws.
Medical science? I am not a doctor. We are not speaking of medical science here. We are speaking of basic biology which the Israelites knew all about. They knew how to produce babies. Ostriches put their head in the sand; apparently you do too. Becoming pregnant is the union of a sperm and an egg. The people as far back in Moses day knew that. But you treat their intelligence like the caveman that you learned about in the secular humanistic public school system. Are you a graduate of one?
Your topic of contraception is off topic. If you want to discuss it start another thread. I will not allow this thread to be derailed by that topic. So leave it alone. You have trouble enough answering questions posed to you one just one topic. Why bring in another?!
BTW, are you a Hebrew scholar or are you just qualified to criticize the language? What are your credentials? I want to know before we enter into more repetitve conversations.
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