Look at the word creation in context. If the "creation" is aware, has knowledge, or is desiring something, humankind is in view. For example, clearly Romans 1:20 refers to humans. In Romans 8:39, "any other created thing" refers to the created things in the mind of the author, not unknown things. And again, look at Romans 8:20-22, clearly creation is identified as humankind in verse 22.
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Little Green Men
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Look at the word creation in context. If the "creation" is aware, has knowledge, or is desiring something, humankind is in view. For example, clearly Romans 1:20 refers to humans. In Romans 8:39, "any other created thing" refers to the created things in the mind of the author, not unknown things. And again, look at Romans 8:20-22, clearly creation is identified as humankind in verse 22.
Denial and change of subject are the hallmark of myth makers.
because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 21,22
If you tried real hard and used your imagination could you conger up an erupting volcano or earthquake in the bondage of corruption?
Was the curse in Genesis relative to the land also?
Will those take place when? And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:10 - And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel; Matt 19:28
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Extraterrestrial intelligent life (angels) is a fundamental Bible doctrine.
Extraterrestrial intelligent life that evolved is the Satanic counterfeit of that doctrine.
Why not present your case? Why are Calvinists afraid to specifically explain their understanding of a specific verse?
Look at 1 Corinthians 15:40 and explain whether the heavenly bodies are angels or the sun, moon and stars?
Why not address what I said, acknowledge agreement or provide an alternate view.
Look at the word creation in context. If the "creation" is aware, has knowledge, or is desiring something, humankind is in view. For example, clearly Romans 1:20 refers to humans. In Romans 8:39, "any other created thing" refers to the created things in the mind of the author, not unknown things. And again, look at Romans 8:20-22, clearly creation is identified as humankind in verse 22.
I knew you wouldn't answer. So I will. Yes, we are told the purpose of the heavenly bodies. "To give light upon the earth" Genesis 1:7. Anything you can see in the sky was made for the purpose of viewing from earth.
Not sure where this is coming from, but I'll play...they are the sun, moon and stars. Paul is using them to illustrate a spiritual phenomenon as he used corn and wheat seeds. Why? Do you think they are angels? Maybe we should discuss the Resurrection in another thread.
Got it, angels are not heavenly bodies. not even an angel from heaven.
I do not think Romans 8 equates to to the OP because I believe Romans 8 is relative to the creation of the world (Kosmos) on the earth, the foundation of the world (Kosmos) on the earth, if you will and not the creation of the heavens and the earth.
because the creation (of kosmos on the earth) itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation (of kosmos on the earth) groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
I believe at the manifestation (revealing) of the sons of God at the appearing of Jesus the following will also come about.
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isa 11:6
I believe presently those are subject to the bondage of corruption. On the earth.
I also think if God wants little green men somewhere, he has them and if he doesn't then he does not have any. If there some I wonder if redemption has been wrought for them and how?
because the creation (of kosmos on the earth) itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation (of kosmos on the earth) groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
I believe at the manifestation (revealing) of the sons of God at the appearing of Jesus the following will also come about.
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isa 11:6
I believe presently those are subject to the bondage of corruption. On the earth.
I also think if God wants little green men somewhere, he has them and if he doesn't then he does not have any. If there some I wonder if redemption has been wrought for them and how?
One of the main arguments for life elsewhere in this universe (and angels aren't part of this universe) is not a scientific argument, but a moral one. It's too proud and self-centered of us to think that God cares only for us. He has love to spare. Who are we to think that we are the center of His purposes?
The humble view; the open-minded and informed view, the view of the virtuous, compels us to allow for God's children on other worlds. Any other view, well that's just narrow and self-centered; sinful.
Atheists don't offer any argument that is any different either. Copernicus knocked us off our high horse. We don't know it all. We aren't the center of the universe. This is the superior notion.
Again, philosophical and moral arguments. Not scientific ones. Oh...they do offer the proper genuflections to the gods of Relativity as a show, but they aren't really being scientific, otherwise they would understand that that cosmology actually allows one to assume that the earth occupies the very center of mass of the universe and is motionless in space. No, their arguments are not scientific. They are mere virtue-signaling.
They are right about one thing, and that is that the idea we are alone in the universe is based upon a huge presupposition, and that presupposition is that the Scriptures are true.
Not belaboring the point that a straightforward reading of the narrative in Genesis chapter one puts the waters under the expanse in the center of all creation, and that those waters aren't scattered through out the universe, but are gathered into one place, and that it was in this place that dry land appeared, and in which God placed mankind, but the narrative seems to also want to drive home the fact that everything God placed in the expanse was also for the purpose of the earth. The sun, moon and stars (which includes planets) were placed "to give light upon the earth."
Then in addition, there is the repeated phrase "under the whole heaven," meaning universal.
The account of pausing the motions of the heavenly bodies so that Joshua could win a war on earth.
The moving backward of the same for the sake of a faithful King of Judah.
The Star of Bethlehem.
But the greatest evidence of the centrality of the earth in God's purpose for the universe is the work that Christ accomplished, and by which He earned His Name and Title. He didn't do that on Mars. Neither did He take a Bride from Andromeda.
Jussayin.
It belittles the Work of the King of Heaven, to think that the Cross was something not universally necessary to beget Children of God. Notice that word "beget." We are begotten of God. Though Luke calls Adam the son of God, Adam was not begotten. He was made. We are partakers of the divine nature. That is never said of Adam even in his innocence.
The Cross is relegated to a contingency; something God had to do to fix things so His primary objective could be accomplished. And so far from the feigned humility of those pretending not to think of themselves as the center of the universe, they assert themselves the center of God's purposes the whole time, and not His Son.
But once one sees that the Cross was the reason for Creation, and that the work of Redemption is that by which Christ gets His name and authority, it is a humbling thing indeed...for the elect. So far from exalting ourselves by denying the existence of little green men, we exalt Christ, the Heir of "all things." And who are joint heirs with Him?
No Martian.
The humble view; the open-minded and informed view, the view of the virtuous, compels us to allow for God's children on other worlds. Any other view, well that's just narrow and self-centered; sinful.
Atheists don't offer any argument that is any different either. Copernicus knocked us off our high horse. We don't know it all. We aren't the center of the universe. This is the superior notion.
Again, philosophical and moral arguments. Not scientific ones. Oh...they do offer the proper genuflections to the gods of Relativity as a show, but they aren't really being scientific, otherwise they would understand that that cosmology actually allows one to assume that the earth occupies the very center of mass of the universe and is motionless in space. No, their arguments are not scientific. They are mere virtue-signaling.
They are right about one thing, and that is that the idea we are alone in the universe is based upon a huge presupposition, and that presupposition is that the Scriptures are true.
Not belaboring the point that a straightforward reading of the narrative in Genesis chapter one puts the waters under the expanse in the center of all creation, and that those waters aren't scattered through out the universe, but are gathered into one place, and that it was in this place that dry land appeared, and in which God placed mankind, but the narrative seems to also want to drive home the fact that everything God placed in the expanse was also for the purpose of the earth. The sun, moon and stars (which includes planets) were placed "to give light upon the earth."
Then in addition, there is the repeated phrase "under the whole heaven," meaning universal.
The account of pausing the motions of the heavenly bodies so that Joshua could win a war on earth.
The moving backward of the same for the sake of a faithful King of Judah.
The Star of Bethlehem.
But the greatest evidence of the centrality of the earth in God's purpose for the universe is the work that Christ accomplished, and by which He earned His Name and Title. He didn't do that on Mars. Neither did He take a Bride from Andromeda.
Jussayin.
It belittles the Work of the King of Heaven, to think that the Cross was something not universally necessary to beget Children of God. Notice that word "beget." We are begotten of God. Though Luke calls Adam the son of God, Adam was not begotten. He was made. We are partakers of the divine nature. That is never said of Adam even in his innocence.
The Cross is relegated to a contingency; something God had to do to fix things so His primary objective could be accomplished. And so far from the feigned humility of those pretending not to think of themselves as the center of the universe, they assert themselves the center of God's purposes the whole time, and not His Son.
But once one sees that the Cross was the reason for Creation, and that the work of Redemption is that by which Christ gets His name and authority, it is a humbling thing indeed...for the elect. So far from exalting ourselves by denying the existence of little green men, we exalt Christ, the Heir of "all things." And who are joint heirs with Him?
No Martian.
Here is my question:
3) Is the speed of light a limit that cannot be exceeded, making travel outside our solar system close to impossible?
And here is Aaron's answer:
According to the Special Theory, yes. Not according to the General Theory where c can assume a value many orders of magnitude beyond 299,792,458 m/s.
Thus as usual I am charged with holding a nutty theory when the nutty understanding of science is all of Aaron.
All these one trick ponies know is to attack those who present biblical truth.
Yet another subject change, another question, another evasion. Again, we are believe in what the bible says, and not make claims supported by an argument from silence. The bible does not say God created life elsewhere in the universe and it does not say God did not create life elsewhere in the universe. Thus, while life elsewhere created by God is a possibility, the UFO claim of evidence is hogwash. In other words, intelligent people stick to what they know...
Relativity isn't the linchpin in the argument against interstellar travel. Newtonian Physics doesn't offer any hope either. So it's pointless to argue about the supposed speed limit of the universe.
You're the one avoiding questions, and you offer nothing of substance in your arguments; just a presupposition of silence and your personal notions about what the words "heaven" and "creation" may mean in certain places.
And it's not merely about the possibility of a microbe here or there, or even a reptile. You're about "children of god" elsewhere in the universe (#13), and you automatically indict one who would argue with you of the sin of pride.
You seem to have a lot invested in keeping this door open. One wonders what it could be.
Genesis 1:17 , rather.
doesn't offer any hope for interstellar travel either, that is.
Once again we get a you, you, you post devoid of content, and filled with speculation.
And once again we have a statement of "taint so" (relativity isn't the linchpin) without stating what is the linchpin.
To argue that the Bible teaches we are the only children of God is to interpret according to presupposition. We are certainly near the center of the biblical story of God, creation, sin, death, and redemption. But we should be careful not to make us the center of our universe. We should not add to scripture, especially to exalt ourselves.
We should stick to what the bible specifically teaches and eschew speculative assertions by those who would add to scripture.
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