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Little Green Men
- Thread starter Aaron
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I'll adopt your wording, because heaven or heavens, both work. God named them Heaven in verse 8.
We are still presented with two main features of Creation, the heavens and the earth.
I asked what God placed in the heavns, perhaps a better first question is, how were the heavens formed, according to Genesis 1?
If anyone believes this post, I have a bridge for sale...
Note the absurdity response, conflate heavens with heaven. Perhaps we can discern a lack of discernment, based on reading whatever between the lines.
As Van's custom is to avoid the questions, it's very hard to tell what he thinks. Maybe he doesn't really know. Hopefully he isn't associating God's abode with any of the heavens of Genesis 1.
Moving on.
To answer a question he's avoiding, the heavens were formed by the expanse in the midst of the waters. Again, the Deep is the heavens and the earth collectively. That's why it is said that the earth had no form, because it didn't. There was only the Deep.
And again, there are two main divisions of the universe. The heavens, and the earth. There is no mention of earths, so to assume other earths, or worlds is to "read between the lines," as Van wont to say.
But there's more. I also asked, what did God place in the heavens and the earth?
Let me narrow the question. What did God put in the firmament (expanse) of heaven? (a singular collective for the heavens.)
The follow up questions will be what is above the expanse? and what is below the expanse?
Disparage then change the subject is the behavior of little green men who read between biblical lines to push false doctrine.
To argue that the Bible teaches we are the only children of God is to interpret according to presupposition. We are certainly near the center of the biblical story of God, creation, sin, death, and redemption. But we should be careful not to make us the center of our universe. We should not add to scripture, especially to exalt ourselves.
We should stick to what the bible specifically teaches and eschew speculative assertions by those who would add to scripture.
When we look at the night sky with our naked eye, we see the sun, moon, some of our solar system planets, and some of the stars of our galaxy, the Milky Way. And we can see light from a few other galaxies, but just a speck of the entire known universe.
To claim the Bible teaches us about the unknown parts of creation is speculation, an argument from silence.
For those interested in the actual topic:
1) Does the bible say God did not create life elsewhere in the universe? (NOPE)
2) Does life existing elsewhere prove life evolved from non-life? (NOPE)
3) Is the speed of light a limit that cannot be exceeded, making travel outside our solar system close to impossible? (YEP}
We should stick to what the bible specifically teaches and eschew speculative assertions by those who would add to scripture.
When we look at the night sky with our naked eye, we see the sun, moon, some of our solar system planets, and some of the stars of our galaxy, the Milky Way. And we can see light from a few other galaxies, but just a speck of the entire known universe.
To claim the Bible teaches us about the unknown parts of creation is speculation, an argument from silence.
For those interested in the actual topic:
1) Does the bible say God did not create life elsewhere in the universe? (NOPE)
2) Does life existing elsewhere prove life evolved from non-life? (NOPE)
3) Is the speed of light a limit that cannot be exceeded, making travel outside our solar system close to impossible? (YEP}
Romans 8:20 is said to refer to creation in general, rather than specifically to mankind, but again this simply misreads the passage. However "the creation" is identified as mankind, because all the plants, animals, and earth will be destroyed, so "the creation" refers to mankind, and more specifically to those looking forward to being resurrected in glorified bodies. Only the "new creation" will be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Therefore this passage again clearly teaches mankind was subjected to futility not because they sinned by choice, but because God visited the consequence of Adam’s sin upon mankind.
One falsehood, one disparagement, one deflection from the truth of scripture after another...You really want to keep Redemption on the sidelines of the grand scheme, don't you.
Romans 8:20 is said to refer to creation in general, rather than specifically to mankind, but again this simply misreads the passage. However "the creation" is identified as mankind, because all the plants, animals, and earth will be destroyed, so "the creation" refers to mankind, and more specifically to those looking forward to being resurrected in glorified bodies. Only the "new creation" will be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Therefore this passage again clearly teaches mankind was subjected to futility not because they sinned by choice, but because God visited the consequence of Adam’s sin upon mankind.
LOL. Again, only according to the Special Theory. But this is not a biblical argument.
Relativity has two theories, which, to date, have yet to be reconciled. One is the Special Theory, which postulates that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant in reference to the observer. Theoretically, observers from various moving platforms could see the same light behaving in different ways, because it is constant, but only in reference to the observer. This theory was advanced as a possible explanation for failure of the Michelson-Morley experiment to detect the motion of the earth through a presumed luminiferous aether with a light interferometer. To keep the speed of light constant, the special theory requires that not only the mass and size of the observer change as he approaches the speed of light, but the passage of time as well. The Special Theory says there is no aether, or other medium in space needed to propagate light waves (or are they particles? Maybe both. Who knows?). The special theory is about close up things in the universe.
The General Theory is about gravity, and about distant things in the universe. The general theory requires a medium in space, and also allows the speed of light to vary in reference to the observer.
Anyway, these are the theories of men about things that can't be tested. No doubt someone will bring up GPS satellites and the supposed gravitational time dilation, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Again, this is not a biblical argument, and irrelevant to the discussion. They're not really scientific either. Not scientific in the observational sense. These things are theoretical and hitherto far from being established fact.
So, back to the Bible (there ought to be a program called that) ...
What did God place in the heavens? (And it's no violation of convention to refer to a vast single feature with a plural. God gathered the waters (plural) under the expanse into one place, and called them "seas." (plural). ) He placed lights. The sun, moon and stars are called lights. (This includes the planets.) There is a purpose to these lights.
I also asked what was placed in the earth. This is where living things were placed. Not only that, but earth is what living things are made of. It is what Christ's body was made of. It's where the Son of God did His eternal work. It's where the Son of God found His bride.
And it's where His children are begotten.
Just going from the Scriptures.
What did God place in the heavens? (And it's no violation of convention to refer to a vast single feature with a plural. God gathered the waters (plural) under the expanse into one place, and called them "seas." (plural). ) He placed lights. The sun, moon and stars are called lights. (This includes the planets.) There is a purpose to these lights.
1) To give light on the earth. To illuminate, yes, but also to be observed from the earth. Earth is the focus.
2) To divide day and night on earth.
3) To be for signs and seasons and days and years of the earth. A great calendar, almanac and time piece for the earth, so to speak. Again, the earth is the focus of the things God placed in the heavens.
Now, I want to remind you that the first words of the creation account present us with two main features of creation, the heaven (or heavens if you prefer) and the earth. One is really, really big. In some places in the Scriptures it is called the "whole heaven." The other very small. But the focus of the really, really big feature, is the very small feature.2) To divide day and night on earth.
3) To be for signs and seasons and days and years of the earth. A great calendar, almanac and time piece for the earth, so to speak. Again, the earth is the focus of the things God placed in the heavens.
I also asked what was placed in the earth. This is where living things were placed. Not only that, but earth is what living things are made of. It is what Christ's body was made of. It's where the Son of God did His eternal work. It's where the Son of God found His bride.
And it's where His children are begotten.
Just going from the Scriptures.
What is your point with this?
I think around June the government is going to dump a lot of ufo stuff they have sat on for years. They already have been selection people to release tid bits of info. What I saw was on Fox news.
I have stated before that I have a tendency to be a conspiracy theorist primarily because of verses like;
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
I believe the Word of God is basically, from the garden of Eden to the coming again of Jesus, contrast of government, government of men in unrighteousness to government of God in righteousness.
Anything the government wants to release relative to that subject is for their benefit not mine or yours even they will tell you it is for yours.
Have you read anything by Frank E. Peretti ?
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12 I believe that may apply, even also Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Anyway I thought that long clip might be interesting in that respect.
It's the reason I have never been able to chisel in stone exactly what I believe concerning the sons of God in Gen.
On and on the poster who makes false arguments from silence posts nonsense.
Folks, the Special Theory of Relativity precludes things with mass from traveling faster than the Speed of Light. And this premise has been tested and found to be valid. So much for his falsehoods of science.
Next he conflates "heaven" singular with "heavens" plural. Sheer gibberish.
Next, the poster ignores the cosmology of the biblical authors addressing "heavens." He says the intended message addressed the then unknown and invisible parts of the universe. Nonsense.
Finally the poster suggests biblical doctrine teaches what is not addressed. More nonsense.
Folks, the Special Theory of Relativity precludes things with mass from traveling faster than the Speed of Light. And this premise has been tested and found to be valid. So much for his falsehoods of science.
Next he conflates "heaven" singular with "heavens" plural. Sheer gibberish.
Next, the poster ignores the cosmology of the biblical authors addressing "heavens." He says the intended message addressed the then unknown and invisible parts of the universe. Nonsense.
Finally the poster suggests biblical doctrine teaches what is not addressed. More nonsense.
LOL. For the sake of argument, I'm going to grant you your notions of Relativity and language arts.
Unless I'm mistaken, you said the heavens and the earth were the entire universe. (Post 68)
Are these the same heavens and earth that will be destroyed in the Day of the Lord, 2 Peter 3:10 ? And do the heavens and the earth here refer to all of Creation, or just a part?
Ah. No, I've never read anything by Peretti, but I remember when he was really popular.
In the movie made from the book in the OP, they mention some government people that have come to the conclusion that abductees are suffering at the hands of malevolent spirits.
There is no profit to responding to your endless rejection of the obvious. I have taught that biblical interpretation includes considering what the author had in mind, and not expand the scope to everything imaginable. You reject this sound principle and say we should infer, using our own world view and doctrines. That, Sir, is the road to false doctrine.
LOL 'The obvious' is that it's all creation.
But you can only imagine what the author had in mind.
Agreed, I reject imagination and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and especially what you imagine were the limitations of divine revelation in the minds of the prophets.
Absolutely, but an inference is not imagination. It's a conclusion based on reasoning and evidence. There is no communication without it. I even gave you an example, and showed that Jesus holds us accountable to draw the correct inferences when He confronted the Sadducees about Moses's teaching on the Resurrection . When they didn't draw the correct inference, Jesus said it was because they were ignorant of the Scriptures and the power of God, Matthew 22:29 .
Oo. Never said that. Must be your imagination.
Unless he is too proud, and he does seem to be spinning in a whirlpool of virtue, I predict Van will eventually give in to the overwhelming weight of the Scriptures and confess that God is indeed sovereign in salvation.
Here this fount of ignorance reveals why he rejects the obvious. He is a Calvinist and since I have revealed Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill, he pretends to find fault. Go figure.
Folks, do not read into scripture you presuppositions, that is what Calvinism and a host of other isms do.
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