Featured Little Green Men

Cool. We'll just move on, because an exposition of the NT verses is not needed for an understanding the heavens, or the heaven (collectively). You said so yourself.

 

I'll adopt your wording, because heaven or heavens, both work. God named them Heaven in verse 8.

We are still presented with two main features of Creation, the heavens and the earth.

I asked what God placed in the heavns, perhaps a better first question is, how were the heavens formed, according to Genesis 1?

 

As Van's custom is to avoid the questions, it's very hard to tell what he thinks. Maybe he doesn't really know. Hopefully he isn't associating God's abode with any of the heavens of Genesis 1.

Moving on.

To answer a question he's avoiding, the heavens were formed by the expanse in the midst of the waters. Again, the Deep is the heavens and the earth collectively. That's why it is said that the earth had no form, because it didn't. There was only the Deep.

And again, there are two main divisions of the universe. The heavens, and the earth. There is no mention of earths, so to assume other earths, or worlds is to "read between the lines," as Van wont to say.

But there's more. I also asked, what did God place in the heavens and the earth?

Let me narrow the question. What did God put in the firmament (expanse) of heaven? (a singular collective for the heavens.)

The follow up questions will be what is above the expanse? and what is below the expanse?

 

You really want to keep Redemption on the sidelines of the grand scheme, don't you.

 

LOL. Again, only according to the Special Theory. But this is not a biblical argument.

Relativity has two theories, which, to date, have yet to be reconciled. One is the Special Theory, which postulates that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant in reference to the observer. Theoretically, observers from various moving platforms could see the same light behaving in different ways, because it is constant, but only in reference to the observer. This theory was advanced as a possible explanation for failure of the Michelson-Morley experiment to detect the motion of the earth through a presumed luminiferous aether with a light interferometer. To keep the speed of light constant, the special theory requires that not only the mass and size of the observer change as he approaches the speed of light, but the passage of time as well. The Special Theory says there is no aether, or other medium in space needed to propagate light waves (or are they particles? Maybe both. Who knows?). The special theory is about close up things in the universe.

The General Theory is about gravity, and about distant things in the universe. The general theory requires a medium in space, and also allows the speed of light to vary in reference to the observer.

Anyway, these are the theories of men about things that can't be tested. No doubt someone will bring up GPS satellites and the supposed gravitational time dilation, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Again, this is not a biblical argument, and irrelevant to the discussion. They're not really scientific either. Not scientific in the observational sense. These things are theoretical and hitherto far from being established fact.

 

So, back to the Bible (there ought to be a program called that) ...

What did God place in the heavens? (And it's no violation of convention to refer to a vast single feature with a plural. God gathered the waters (plural) under the expanse into one place, and called them "seas." (plural). ) He placed lights. The sun, moon and stars are called lights. (This includes the planets.) There is a purpose to these lights.

1) To give light on the earth. To illuminate, yes, but also to be observed from the earth. Earth is the focus.

2) To divide day and night on earth.

3) To be for signs and seasons and days and years of the earth. A great calendar, almanac and time piece for the earth, so to speak. Again, the earth is the focus of the things God placed in the heavens.
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Now, I want to remind you that the first words of the creation account present us with two main features of creation, the heaven (or heavens if you prefer) and the earth. One is really, really big. In some places in the Scriptures it is called the "whole heaven." The other very small. But the focus of the really, really big feature, is the very small feature.

I also asked what was placed in the earth. This is where living things were placed. Not only that, but earth is what living things are made of. It is what Christ's body was made of. It's where the Son of God did His eternal work. It's where the Son of God found His bride.

And it's where His children are begotten.

Just going from the Scriptures.

 

What is your point with this?

 

LOL. For the sake of argument, I'm going to grant you your notions of Relativity and language arts.

Unless I'm mistaken, you said the heavens and the earth were the entire universe. (Post 68)

Are these the same heavens and earth that will be destroyed in the Day of the Lord, 2 Peter 3:10 ? And do the heavens and the earth here refer to all of Creation, or just a part?

 

Ah. No, I've never read anything by Peretti, but I remember when he was really popular.

In the movie made from the book in the OP, they mention some government people that have come to the conclusion that abductees are suffering at the hands of malevolent spirits.

 

LOL 'The obvious' is that it's all creation.

But you can only imagine what the author had in mind.

Agreed, I reject imagination and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and especially what you imagine were the limitations of divine revelation in the minds of the prophets.

Absolutely, but an inference is not imagination. It's a conclusion based on reasoning and evidence. There is no communication without it. I even gave you an example, and showed that Jesus holds us accountable to draw the correct inferences when He confronted the Sadducees about Moses's teaching on the Resurrection . When they didn't draw the correct inference, Jesus said it was because they were ignorant of the Scriptures and the power of God, Matthew 22:29 .

Oo. Never said that. Must be your imagination.

Unless he is too proud, and he does seem to be spinning in a whirlpool of virtue, I predict Van will eventually give in to the overwhelming weight of the Scriptures and confess that God is indeed sovereign in salvation.