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Living With Illegals?
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
Indeed charitys do "do it best" they are more efficient etc.
However unfortunately, original sin means we don't do enough on our won accord . We are avariciuos and greedy by nature and find it hard to let go. Whilst this isn't the case for many christians, the nation consists of a heck of a lot of atheists and faker-christians who don't...
... Making people give money to the "poor, needy, blind, lame" is simply what Christ commands. 2100 times says its important.
JAMES, II
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
LEVITICUS, XXV
35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
I really struggle to see the differnece between the ACLU bleating on about "private freedoms" when the issue of gay-marriage comes up, and you talking about being forced into giving to the needy.
God talks about "delighting in the law" - i don't mind not being allowed to get married to my own sex, as i shouldn't be doing that anyways. Similarly i don't mind haveing money being taken by the govt. when its being spent on compassion like anti-poverty programs - should i be doing that anyway -and shouldn't i not love money.
Mat 22:21
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
However unfortunately, original sin means we don't do enough on our won accord . We are avariciuos and greedy by nature and find it hard to let go. Whilst this isn't the case for many christians, the nation consists of a heck of a lot of atheists and faker-christians who don't...
... Making people give money to the "poor, needy, blind, lame" is simply what Christ commands. 2100 times says its important.
JAMES, II
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
LEVITICUS, XXV
35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
If the govt. enforcing basic christian-morality is immoral, then does that go for gay-marriage, anti-sodomy, Abortion.
I really struggle to see the differnece between the ACLU bleating on about "private freedoms" when the issue of gay-marriage comes up, and you talking about being forced into giving to the needy.
God talks about "delighting in the law" - i don't mind not being allowed to get married to my own sex, as i shouldn't be doing that anyways. Similarly i don't mind haveing money being taken by the govt. when its being spent on compassion like anti-poverty programs - should i be doing that anyway -and shouldn't i not love money.
Mat 22:21
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
Seriously grow up. Economic development is a heck of a lot more complex than just 'backbone'. If you compare ave. hours worked for a mexican with a american you'll see they do work hard.
Development primarily depends on trade and democracy, which is why things like NAFTA are helpful. But it takes a long time, and frankly a lot of luck is needed also. Corruption is a big problem - i've been lucky to grwo up in a wealthy country, so have you.
just becasue others haven't been so lucky, and through no fault of their own dosnt meen that you, I or the govt should "clench his bowels of compassion"
KenH
Well-Known Member
The people running the government that you evidently place so much faith in are also affected by this original sin.
You are in essence groveling at the feet of Leviathan and crying out, "Please, Government, take my money from me and place into wasteful socialistic government programs."
How about you just give more of your money to your government while the rest of us help the private charities that actually do some good in this world.
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
Now your getting slightly personal. As it happens i give to charity, and do voluntary work with the homeless to.
as i said before govt. programs are more inefficient. Anmd i'm glad to hear you give to charity.
However, many, many americans aren't very generous. These are the atheists, the humanists, the faker-chrisitians.
As i said before it's like gay-marriage. Just becasue you or i wouldn't engage in such abomination dosn't mean others won't. Its irrelevant that some of us give.. since so many won't on their own accord
as i said before govt. programs are more inefficient. Anmd i'm glad to hear you give to charity.
However, many, many americans aren't very generous. These are the atheists, the humanists, the faker-chrisitians.
As i said before it's like gay-marriage. Just becasue you or i wouldn't engage in such abomination dosn't mean others won't. Its irrelevant that some of us give.. since so many won't on their own accord
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
"government's power to meddle in our lives"
does that mean that state govts. cant interfere in the way we conduct ourselves, in over areas of morality such as sodomy, gay-marriage, abortion????
are you not pro anti-sodomy laws?
it seems riduculous that govts. are allowed to be guided by christian-morality on key issues like gay-marriagge, but not on key issues like caring for the neeedy????????
especially since the bible is 2100 times concerned with the poor!!!!!!
Surely if it meens the diffence between someone dying of starvation either abroad or domoesticly, you cannot think its immoral to use taxes to pay for that?
Anyway, it is a good argument for the govt to act if "many, many, americans dont do it" e.g. drugs should be illegal, becasue otherwise more people would do them.
does that mean that state govts. cant interfere in the way we conduct ourselves, in over areas of morality such as sodomy, gay-marriage, abortion????
are you not pro anti-sodomy laws?
it seems riduculous that govts. are allowed to be guided by christian-morality on key issues like gay-marriagge, but not on key issues like caring for the neeedy????????
especially since the bible is 2100 times concerned with the poor!!!!!!
Surely if it meens the diffence between someone dying of starvation either abroad or domoesticly, you cannot think its immoral to use taxes to pay for that?
Anyway, it is a good argument for the govt to act if "many, many, americans dont do it" e.g. drugs should be illegal, becasue otherwise more people would do them.
KenH
Well-Known Member
The government should stay out of the sodomy issue.
I believe in the separation of marriage and state.
Abortion should be outlawed totally as it violates the rights of the unborn baby.
I believe in the separation of marriage and state.
Abortion should be outlawed totally as it violates the rights of the unborn baby.
Yes, it is. Once one starts down the road of giving more and more power to the government over individuals, where does it stop short of dictatorship - in spite of what may be the best of intentions?
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
Surely then you've just contradicted yourself. If you allow state intervention in right-to-life issues, then surely starvation or death or HIV treatment are prime examples where govt intervention would save lives - so would be accpetable by your own logic
anyway, where do you stand on the issue of drugs? is the govt allowed to 'interfere with peoples lives" there????
anyway, where do you stand on the issue of drugs? is the govt allowed to 'interfere with peoples lives" there????
LoveThy Neighbor,
you are wandering all over the place and avoiding the real issues. America has for years supported Mexico but corruption reaches very deep in Mexican society and even El Presidente Vicente Fox will admit to that. America needs to more with helping it's own so that they in turn may be more willingly help others.
you are wandering all over the place and avoiding the real issues. America has for years supported Mexico but corruption reaches very deep in Mexican society and even El Presidente Vicente Fox will admit to that. America needs to more with helping it's own so that they in turn may be more willingly help others.
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
i realize we're off track. (and yeah corruption with officals is a big problem - but that is not your average mexican child's fault and they shouldnt be left to suffer because of it)
I do think america should "help its own" also- but that meens compassion for the poor, week, needy - helping them to escape poverty would allow them to earn and contribute more to the economy.
of course its very difficult to get big results - but we still need to try. Cause ulitmately we're held to account on j-day for our actions and jesus commanded compasssion.
ST. LUKE, XIV
13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
I do think america should "help its own" also- but that meens compassion for the poor, week, needy - helping them to escape poverty would allow them to earn and contribute more to the economy.
of course its very difficult to get big results - but we still need to try. Cause ulitmately we're held to account on j-day for our actions and jesus commanded compasssion.
ST. LUKE, XIV
13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
"California immigrant households received a net subsidy from combined Federal, state, and local programs averaging $6,145 in 1996. Immigrant households received an average $24,507 in combined Federal, state, and local spending. They paid an average of $18,362 in taxes"
-VDare Magazine
Immigration costs
According to a Pugh Hispanic poll, 40 million Mexicans; 40 percent of Mexicans say they want to immigrate to the U.S., and 20 percent would come here illegally if they had the chance.
Just how much compassion do you expect Americans to have, LTN?
Aliens make up about 11 percent of the U.S. population but are 30 percent of the Federal prison population.
The only category of crime nationally that has been going up in recent years is gang crime. Between 1999 and 2002, gang crime increased 50 percent. And that increase which is going on across the country is mostly driven by immigration. (Sombra Negra, The Mexican Boys, MI5, Mexican Mafia etc).
Yes, God expects us to show compassion but I don't think He ever told Israel they should allow themselves to be overrun.
We are asked to have compassion for big business and big government who are really making big profits and get big bloc votes from illegals.
Big corporations want something for nothing. They do not want welfare reform for political reasons. So they put able-bodied people on welfare and import illegals and then push their cheap labor off on the taxpayer to sustain.
But then all of Latin America is a nightmare of corruption where nothing ever gets done unless an endless line of government officials get paid for nothing.
And the Catholic Church sits on the sidelines refusing to lift one finger for the needy in spite of the wealth of the Vatican. The Catholics deny birth control for the superstitious Mexicans and then throw stones at the White House for not helping more.
Mexicans themselves are anti-American and side with the terrorists against America.
We need to build a big fence to stop anymore illegals from coming in. Then we need to deal with those here already in a very strict manner.
As for the European idea that everything can be solved with government welfare, Europe has already failed with that method with their own illegal population of Arabs. Europe is an example of what not to do and the Catholic Church is an example of European default and collapse.
Big corporations want something for nothing. They do not want welfare reform for political reasons. So they put able-bodied people on welfare and import illegals and then push their cheap labor off on the taxpayer to sustain.
But then all of Latin America is a nightmare of corruption where nothing ever gets done unless an endless line of government officials get paid for nothing.
And the Catholic Church sits on the sidelines refusing to lift one finger for the needy in spite of the wealth of the Vatican. The Catholics deny birth control for the superstitious Mexicans and then throw stones at the White House for not helping more.
Mexicans themselves are anti-American and side with the terrorists against America.
We need to build a big fence to stop anymore illegals from coming in. Then we need to deal with those here already in a very strict manner.
As for the European idea that everything can be solved with government welfare, Europe has already failed with that method with their own illegal population of Arabs. Europe is an example of what not to do and the Catholic Church is an example of European default and collapse.
LoveThyNeighbour
New Member
I'm really saddened with all your reactions to this.
NightShift, Vdare.com is a racist organization, don't listen to their pseudo-facts. Peter Brimelow the webstites creator declared the Book The Real American Dilemma "the most important to be published on the subject for manyyears.". This book was written by white supremacist web page Samuel Jared Taylor. The ADL describes his work as "pseudoscientific articles that validate the genetic and moral inferiority of nonwhites and the need for racial "purity."
Don't tar all immigrants with the 'lazy' brush.
The catholic Church does a lot for overseas development if you knew, cared, or were involved in the issue (Catholic Relief services are the 4th largest Christian charity , spending 0.6 $bn on overseas development). It's oppostion to condoms is wrong, but that's hardly the cause of all the world poverty. It's oppostion to 3rd world debt is on the other hand higly commnedable.
"Mexicans themselves are anti-American and side with the terrorists against America."
utter rubbsish. How dare you compare them to human scum like hamas or Al-Qaeda...
I deeply saddened by all your outright hostility to 'illegals'. Christianity commands love and respect for all. Of course its complicated, and welfare isn't the only or best solution, bet let us hope we can deal with the problem with lover, respect and compassion.
Following the golden rule to "do unto others" means for me that The Guest Worker (with border security) bill is the most humane way of dealing with the problem.
[ March 30, 2006, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: LoveThyNeighbour ]
NightShift, Vdare.com is a racist organization, don't listen to their pseudo-facts. Peter Brimelow the webstites creator declared the Book The Real American Dilemma "the most important to be published on the subject for manyyears.". This book was written by white supremacist web page Samuel Jared Taylor. The ADL describes his work as "pseudoscientific articles that validate the genetic and moral inferiority of nonwhites and the need for racial "purity."
Don't tar all immigrants with the 'lazy' brush.
The catholic Church does a lot for overseas development if you knew, cared, or were involved in the issue (Catholic Relief services are the 4th largest Christian charity , spending 0.6 $bn on overseas development). It's oppostion to condoms is wrong, but that's hardly the cause of all the world poverty. It's oppostion to 3rd world debt is on the other hand higly commnedable.
"Mexicans themselves are anti-American and side with the terrorists against America."
utter rubbsish. How dare you compare them to human scum like hamas or Al-Qaeda...
I deeply saddened by all your outright hostility to 'illegals'. Christianity commands love and respect for all. Of course its complicated, and welfare isn't the only or best solution, bet let us hope we can deal with the problem with lover, respect and compassion.
Following the golden rule to "do unto others" means for me that The Guest Worker (with border security) bill is the most humane way of dealing with the problem.
[ March 30, 2006, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: LoveThyNeighbour ]
The ADL is a racists organization!
The issue isn't about being against immigration, it's about being against illegal immigration! We need to protect our borders and only allow those immigrants who are following the rules to be legal into the country, the rest need to be deported and need to wait in line.
There are numerous news reports of illegals bringing drugs into the country, committing rapes and murders, etc. It is the duty of the government to protect the borders, that is all we want them to do.
The issue isn't about being against immigration, it's about being against illegal immigration! We need to protect our borders and only allow those immigrants who are following the rules to be legal into the country, the rest need to be deported and need to wait in line.
There are numerous news reports of illegals bringing drugs into the country, committing rapes and murders, etc. It is the duty of the government to protect the borders, that is all we want them to do.