Looking At Luke 24:25-27

[JD731]

I sure appreciate all the posters that have responded to this conversation. These things needs to be discussed and the scriptures need to win all arguments and settle all disagreements. I remind all of what our Lord Jesus Christ said here;

Jn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

When Jesus spoke these words the New Testament scriptures had not been hinted at. To have eternal life one must properly identify the person of Jesus Christ and his work and believe in him. One cannot be cavalier and careless when dealing with OT scriptures. Do not assign different meanings to words and people groups in the NT scriptures than they are in the OT scriptures. People during the days of the earthly ministry of Jesus, religious and pious men, went to hell for doing that.

Now, much of what is taught in the NT scriptures was not a subject of OT scriptures. These doctrines are called "mysteries of God." Why are they called that? Because God responded to the rejection by Israel of his kingdom and his person, and his salvation. He went from fulfilling OT scriptures concerning them to revealing a new course of action that involved the gentiles. It was now a spiritual form of his kingdom. Remember how God thinks and does things. It was a physical kingdom first and then spiritual. This is a constant in the scriptures. One kingdom with two characters. Three when one counts God, a trinity.

One does not know how much damage he is doing to the truth by rejecting the kingdom of God in favor of something concocted in the minds of men. Practically everything Paul wrote in his 13 letters is new revelation and is not explained in the OT. The OT is about the physical. The NT is about the spiritual kingdom. The Revelation is when it all comes together as one kingdom under the revealed Jesus Christ, Lord of Lords and King of kings.


Ep 3: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me (Paul not saved until 8 years after the resurrection of our Lord Jesus) the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Obviously this was not revealed before Paul or this would be a silly statement.

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

The grace of God is a mystery hidden from those before Paul and his salvation and calling.

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

The grace of God is not the elimination of the Jews in God's salvation plan, but the inclusion of the gentiles in his kingdom on an equal status as sons of God with the believing Jews.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Practically everything Paul wrote in his 13 letters is new revelation and is not explained in the OT.

I think maybe this needs to be checked.
Looking through Romans very quickly, I came across the following O.T. quotations. Read 1:1-2 first, then 16:25-27, and then these:
1:17; 2:6, 24; 3:4, 10-18; 4:7-8; 17, 18, 22-23 (the whole chapter is referencing Abraham) 5:12-19; 7:7-12 (the whole chapter is about God's law); 8:36; 9:9, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20-21 (reference to Jer. 18), 25-29, 33; 10:6-8; 11, 13, 15, 16-21; 11:3-4; 8-10; 26-27; 12:19-20; 13:9; 14:11; 15:3, 9-12, 21.
It seems to me that Paul bases (or at least, establishes) his teaching upon the O.T.

 

[JD731]

I think maybe this needs to be checked.
Looking through Romans very quickly, I came across the following O.T. quotations. Read 1:1-2 first, then 16:25-27, and then these:
1:17; 2:6, 24; 3:4, 10-18; 4:7-8; 17, 18, 22-23 (the whole chapter is referencing Abraham) 5:12-19; 7:7-12 (the whole chapter is about God's law); 8:36; 9:9, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20-21 (reference to Jer. 18), 25-29, 33; 10:6-8; 11, 13, 15, 16-21; 11:3-4; 8-10; 26-27; 12:19-20; 13:9; 14:11; 15:3, 9-12, 21.
It seems to me that Paul bases (or at least, establishes) his teaching upon the O.T.

The date for Romans is 58 AD. This is 28 years after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the sixth Pauline epistle. It is 18 years after Peter was persuaded via a miracle of God that he was to go see an Italian to open the door of faith to gentiles because he, God was ready to include them in his unfolding drama of redemption. If there were ever to be an explanation of what God was doing now, in this present time, in relation to Israel and her covenant promises, it is now or it is never. Romans was written from Corinth during the time of Acts 18. That is how much history had passed at the time of the writing.

Therefore, the scriptures from Romans 7:1 to Romans 11:12 are in a strictly Jewish context as that explanation.

Jesus Christ had already spoken of these eventualities during the last week of his ministry on earth so we can have a visual of the whole age as a result of the rejection of him and his work by Israel. Read it here.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

The marriage supper of the Lamb is the inauguration of the kingdom of Jesus Christ.

This is a visual for this age given us by the Prophet Jesus Christ. It is to his people Israel.

 

[JD731]

I think you should respond to my points.

1) Christ came with His gospel of grace for all humanity.
2) Christ did teach He would suffer and die to His disciples.

See Luke 24:46-47

Here is an important truth that seems to get missed but is revealed and proven to men by the whole of the OT scriptures and the NT scriptures. That truth is that unregenerate men, that is men without the indwelling Holy Spirit as a permanent member of their person, cannot understand the mind of God. It really does not matter which side of the cross of Jesus Christ one lives on, what is his ethnicity, or any other division of humanity. It is particularly true of the OT scriptures because between Adam and Jesus Christ there was not a single regenerated man on the earth. Not one, who had the capacity to understand the mind of God.

This is clearly stated in the scriptures so there should be no doubt. I will quote it for you.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I hope you guys will read this carefully. God wants our faith to stand in his power, not in the wisdom of men. His words are spiritual words yet many of you men are on his constantly, day after day, guffawing this truth and presenting all kinds of different words that cannot instruct you. One man on here outlines whole books to make senseless points and seems to have no thoughts of his own.

Regeneration happens when the Spirit of Christ indwells our bodies as a part of our person with the promise to never leave us or forsake us. Jesus said in Jn 6:63 that the words he speaks are spirit and they are life. The Spirit indwelt no one in this manner before the cross because of the way we were born of Adam,, body and soul. We must have the proper relationship with the word of God. We must believe it.

Sorry Van, I did not deal directly with your points but I will come back later with my comments.

 

[kyredneck]

@JD731, why do you think Peter was ‘called onto the carpet’ in Acts 11 for going to the Gentiles? (Lol, in less than 10,000 words, if possible)

 

[JD731]

@JD731, why do you think Peter was ‘called onto the carpet’ in Acts 11 for going to the Gentiles?

If he was called on the carpet in Jerusalem about going in the home of a gentile, it was by the apostles and Christian Brethren in the Jerusalem church. These men were unaware of the transition that God was making because of the failure of the Jews in Acts 7 to embrace Jesus Christ from the seat of their government, the temple after 7 years of preaching to them.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Here is Jesus who described this same transition going forward in the last week of his earthy ministry to Israel;

15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

A house is a metaphor for a family. The intention was for a Jewish family of born again sons, but alas, though they were bidden, they refused to come. Just a small remnant came. But the house was intended to be as large as the Jewish family so now we can read Rom 7:1 thru through Romans 11:12 and have Paul add information to this transition and we can understand it better. I encourage you to read all this but I will except from it.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

A remnant is a small portion of the whole.

Since there are some saved, but not the whole as will need to happen for the kingdom to be established, then God deals with the small remnant under a different principle, grace.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The answer is righteousness and Israel sought it by the Law of Moses even after Christ had fulfilled the law of righteousness. The text will tell you this and no one will need to guess about it.

Ro 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

What this amounts to in this transition from Jew to gentile to fill up the house is a setting aside of the national salvation to individual salvation, one here and one over there, whoever will come until the house is full. Remember, this is the house /family of Jesus Christ. Read He 3 right here.

Transition

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

In this manner, one at a time.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

How long?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This will transition back to a national salvation when the church is full and the Abrahamic and Davidic and the Palestinian covenants will be at the forefront in history and the mighty God will fulfil them all through a converted in total nation when he has purged out the chaff.

The Jewish apostles and prophets, including Peter, never truly understood the church.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I hope this helps some but I can address the giving of the Spirit to gentiles more thourghly if it will be helpful to you.

 

[Van]

I know this is way too deep and beyond the scope of Vanology, but why do you think Peter was ‘called onto the carpet’ in Acts 11 for going to the Gentiles?

More diversion, more ignoring the issue, more deception.

 

[Van]

Here is an important truth that seems to get missed but is revealed and proven to men by the whole of the OT scriptures and the NT scriptures. That truth is that unregenerate men, that is men without the indwelling Holy Spirit as a permanent member of their person, cannot understand the mind of God. It really does not matter which side of the cross of Jesus Christ one lives on, what is his ethnicity, or any other division of humanity. It is particularly true of the OT scriptures because between Adam and Jesus Christ there was not a single regenerated man on the earth. Not one, who had the capacity to understand the mind of God.

This is clearly stated in the scriptures so there should be no doubt. I will quote it for you.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I hope you guys will read this carefully. God wants our faith to stand in his power, not in the wisdom of men. His words are spiritual words yet many of you men are on his constantly, day after day, guffawing this truth and presenting all kinds of different words that cannot instruct you. One man on here outlines whole books to make senseless points and seems to have no thoughts of his own.

Regeneration happens when the Spirit of Christ indwells our bodies as a part of our person with the promise to never leave us or forsake us. Jesus said in Jn 6:63 that the words he speaks are spirit and they are life. The Spirit indwelt no one in this manner before the cross because of the way we were born of Adam,, body and soul. We must have the proper relationship with the word of God. We must believe it.

Sorry Van, I did not deal directly with your points but I will come back later with my comments.

I will consider your direct dealing when and if you want to discuss the issues.

1) Christ came with His gospel of grace for all humanity.
2) Christ did teach He would suffer and die to His disciples.
See Luke 24:46-47

 

[Van]

I completely disagree that Christ did not come with the gospel of grace for all humanity.

And then He said to them, “You foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! “Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to come into His glory?” Then beginning with Moses and with all the Prophets, He explained to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures.

Here Jesus tells them they are not comprehending the spiritual truths taught in scripture. The issue between us presented in the OP is in our difference in apprehending the spiritual truths taught in scripture.

The truth presented in our passage is that Christ had to suffer and physically die to provide the sacrifice necessary to make people perfect, without any burden caused by sin. Their understanding of Isaiah 53 was non-existent. But here it is in the NT:

and He said to them, “So it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. Luke 24:46-47 NASB

Here Christ teaches His salvation is for all nations, which includes Gentiles, and that He will suffer and die. The OP is unbiblical.

 

[Guy Humphries]

This passage records the words of Jesus to his disciple Cleopas and his unnamed disciple companion on the Emmaus Road on Sunday, the day of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The hopes of the kingdom they had been preaching with Jesus for 3 plus years had gone away with his death in Jerusalem. Before they realized they were speaking with the Resurrected Jesus they expressed their disappointment and the finality of their hope through him in the following exchange.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

The implication is that the death of Jesus ended their hope of redemption. He had taught them about a kingdom. Now we can be sure they were defining redemption in a national sense and not a personal sense. They knew nothing about a resurrection.

Let that slap you up side the head. Jesus Christ had been preaching along with these very disciples for over 3 years and here they are completely ignorant about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and what it means. The great apostle John would provide the following commentary about events earlier that day at the tomb, thus shedding light on this ignorance;

John 20 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.

This a record of events as Jesus went to Jerusalem where he would be crucified
Mk 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

I contend that the gospel that Jesus Christ preached to his own, Israel, at his first coming was not the gospel of the grace of God (which includes the gentiles in the kingdom) but rather the gospel of the kingdom and I contend the gospel of the kingdom is the good news, glad tidings that Christ came to begin the events leading to the inauguration of his earthly kingdom over the Jews only to suspend it because of their crucifixion of him.

I invite those who disagree to a discussion of this topic to explain your logic.

Matt 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Guy Humphries]

In this same chapter the Emmaus two [vs34bkjv], "...found the eleven [Apostles] gathered together, AND them that were with them..."
36 ..."Jesus himself stood in the midst of them..."

To assure them, 43 "He took it, and did eat before them..."

Then a Key verse 45 "Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures..." They had accompanied Jesus about 3 years during which He had advised them and now reminded them 46 "...thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And [remember] ye are witnesses of these things."

When Jesus "...opened He their understanding..." the 11 Apostles finally 'got it", they believed the Gospel, they got saved. They obeyed Jesus and waited for filling by the Holy Spirit. They ceased expecting Jesus to restore Israel from Roman rule and, when Filled by God's Holy Spirit, they proclaimed, with power, the Gospel as Jesus instructed resulting in a glorious revival of thousands saved. Praise our Savior!!!!