Lordship Salvation and children

[Greektim]

I find the gospel finds its most complete expression in the fewest words with "Jesus is Lord." I believe that repentance and a life completely surrendered to Jesus is what it means to believe or have faith or put your trust in...

My question then is, for those of us who believe in what is called Lordship salvation, is it likely (or even possible) that children under 10 years (picked that number somewhat arbitrarily) will have a full grasp of what kind of life Jesus has called them to? It seems that so often when a 5 year old "is saved" it is because they have been sold cheap grace. I wonder if we preached a gospel of God's rule, Jesus' lordship, discipleship, and counting the cost; what child is going to respond positively except the God quicken their heart? More often than not, the gospel is simply, "Go to heaven when you die, don't go to hell, see Jesus and Grandpa..." Of course, those thoughts are foreign in Jesus' gospel presentation.

 

[Iconoclast]

I find the gospel finds its most complete expression in the fewest words with "Jesus is Lord." I believe that repentance and a life completely surrendered to Jesus is what it means to believe or have faith or put your trust in...

My question then is, for those of us who believe in what is called Lordship salvation, is it likely (or even possible) that children under 10 years (picked that number somewhat arbitrarily) will have a full grasp of what kind of life Jesus has called them to? It seems that so often when a 5 year old "is saved" it is because they have been sold cheap grace. I wonder if we preached a gospel of God's rule, Jesus' lordship, discipleship, and counting the cost; what child is going to respond positively except the God quicken their heart? More often than not, the gospel is simply, "Go to heaven when you die, don't go to hell, see Jesus and Grandpa..." Of course, those thoughts are foreign in Jesus' gospel presentation.

A child who is saved will understand as a child.[ A child has limited vocabulary, experience in life and so on.]
God will continue to work in that child as he grows physically[mentally, emotionally,etc] with an accompanying Spiritual growth, even if the parent is lax in instructing the child.

If the child is not actually saved[new birth]...the false fleshly profession will fade in time.....sadly...many parents talk the child into an unscriptural re-dedication.....which is just more fleshly religion..compounding the error.

If salvation is come there should be continual and sustained growth in grace and a knowledge of Jesus Lordship in their life.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

A child who is saved will understand as a child.[ A child has limited vocabulary, experience in life and so on.]
God will continue to work in that child as he grows physically[mentally, emotionally,etc] with an accompanying Spiritual growth, even if the parent is lax in instructing the child.

If the child is not actually saved[new birth]...the false fleshly profession will fade in time.....sadly...many parents talk the child into an unscriptural re-dedication.....which is just more fleshly religion..compounding the error.

If salvation is come there should be continual and sustained growth in grace and a knowledge of Jesus Lordship in their life.

Excellent post!

 

[Greektim]

A child who is saved will understand as a child.[ A child has limited vocabulary, experience in life and so on.]
God will continue to work in that child as he grows physically[mentally, emotionally,etc] with an accompanying Spiritual growth, even if the parent is lax in instructing the child.

If the child is not actually saved[new birth]...the false fleshly profession will fade in time.....sadly...many parents talk the child into an unscriptural re-dedication.....which is just more fleshly religion..compounding the error.

If salvation is come there should be continual and sustained growth in grace and a knowledge of Jesus Lordship in their life.

Wise answer. Thank you for this. (can you tell I am a new parent?)

 

[Judith]

I find the gospel finds its most complete expression in the fewest words with "Jesus is Lord." I believe that repentance and a life completely surrendered to Jesus is what it means to believe or have faith or put your trust in...

My question then is, for those of us who believe in what is called Lordship salvation, is it likely (or even possible) that children under 10 years (picked that number somewhat arbitrarily) will have a full grasp of what kind of life Jesus has called them to? It seems that so often when a 5 year old "is saved" it is because they have been sold cheap grace. I wonder if we preached a gospel of God's rule, Jesus' lordship, discipleship, and counting the cost; what child is going to respond positively except the God quicken their heart? More often than not, the gospel is simply, "Go to heaven when you die, don't go to hell, see Jesus and Grandpa..." Of course, those thoughts are foreign in Jesus' gospel presentation.

I don't believe that there is one message for adults and another for children or even a different presentation. If by chance the person listening is not capable to understand the gospel then I would assume they are covered under what is termed "age of accountability" no matter their age. Instead of presenting another gospel to get a so called decision I believe we need to just give the message of repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and allow the Spirit to awaken the soul.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't believe that there is one message for adults and another for children or even a different presentation. If by chance the person listening is not capable to understand the gospel then I would assume they are covered under what is termed "age of accountability" no matter their age. Instead of presenting another gospel to get a so called decision I believe we need to just give the message of repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and allow the Spirit to awaken the soul.

Who said anything about giving "another gospel"?

 

[webdog]

I find the gospel finds its most complete expression in the fewest words with "Jesus is Lord." I believe that repentance and a life completely surrendered to Jesus is what it means to believe or have faith or put your trust in...

My question then is, for those of us who believe in what is called Lordship salvation, is it likely (or even possible) that children under 10 years (picked that number somewhat arbitrarily) will have a full grasp of what kind of life Jesus has called them to? It seems that so often when a 5 year old "is saved" it is because they have been sold cheap grace. I wonder if we preached a gospel of God's rule, Jesus' lordship, discipleship, and counting the cost; what child is going to respond positively except the God quicken their heart? More often than not, the gospel is simply, "Go to heaven when you die, don't go to hell, see Jesus and Grandpa..." Of course, those thoughts are foreign in Jesus' gospel presentation.

What kind of grasp did the thief on the cross next to Jesus have? Did he make any up front commitment to follow His lordship?

 

[Revmitchell]

What kind of grasp did the thief on the cross next to Jesus have? Did he make any up front commitment to follow His lordship?

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,

 

[Greektim]

I don't believe that there is one message for adults and another for children or even a different presentation. If by chance the person listening is not capable to understand the gospel then I would assume they are covered under what is termed "age of accountability" no matter their age. Instead of presenting another gospel to get a so called decision I believe we need to just give the message of repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and allow the Spirit to awaken the soul.

That may be... although I reject the concept "age of accountability" as if that has any bearing on God's eternal decree of election.

 

[Iconoclast]

What kind of grasp did the thief on the cross next to Jesus have? Did he make any up front commitment to follow His lordship?

Well it looks like The Spirit gave him a good understanding of Lordship....as that was his confession.

38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, This Is The King Of The Jews.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus,

Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well it looks like The Spirit gave him a good understanding of Lordship....as that was his confession.

38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, This Is The King Of The Jews.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus,

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Yea it is not necessary to assume that the Lordship of Christ is some difficult doctrine that can only be grasped in a 12 week discipleship class.

 

[Yeshua1]

I find the gospel finds its most complete expression in the fewest words with "Jesus is Lord." I believe that repentance and a life completely surrendered to Jesus is what it means to believe or have faith or put your trust in...

My question then is, for those of us who believe in what is called Lordship salvation, is it likely (or even possible) that children under 10 years (picked that number somewhat arbitrarily) will have a full grasp of what kind of life Jesus has called them to? It seems that so often when a 5 year old "is saved" it is because they have been sold cheap grace. I wonder if we preached a gospel of God's rule, Jesus' lordship, discipleship, and counting the cost; what child is going to respond positively except the God quicken their heart? More often than not, the gospel is simply, "Go to heaven when you die, don't go to hell, see Jesus and Grandpa..." Of course, those thoughts are foreign in Jesus' gospel presentation.

has ANY EVER been completed surrendered to jesus as the Lord over entire life 27/7, until they died?

Why complicated this, as the bible teaches saved by grace alone, thru faith alone, and once saved by god, then we stsrt to get to putting more and more of our lives under lordship of jesus, as some things we do even recognise as being disobedient to him yet!

 

[Greektim]

has ANY EVER been completed surrendered to jesus as the Lord over entire life 27/7, until they died?

This is not LS.

Why complicated this, as the bible teaches saved by grace alone, thru faith alone, and once saved by god, then we stsrt to get to putting more and more of our lives under lordship of jesus, as some things we do even recognise as being disobedient to him yet!

This is not complicating anything other than the gospel which is complex.
Saved by grace... yes
thru faith alone (which implies repentance)... yes
then we start to get... well... tell me where Jesus ever allowed any of his disciples to "start putting more and more of our lives under his lordship". It seems he just follow me, pick up your cross, sell everything, and etc.

 

[Iconoclast]

has ANY EVER been completed surrendered to jesus as the Lord over entire life 27/7, until they died?

Why complicated this, as the bible teaches saved by grace alone, thru faith alone, and once saved by god, then we stsrt to get to putting more and more of our lives under lordship of jesus, as some things we do even recognise as being disobedient to him yet!

All the lives of people are under His Lordship.It is the level of rebellion that changes.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is not LS.


This is not complicating anything other than the gospel which is complex.
Saved by grace... yes
thru faith alone (which implies repentance)... yes
then we start to get... well... tell me where Jesus ever allowed any of his disciples to "start putting more and more of our lives under his lordship". It seems he just follow me, pick up your cross, sell everything, and etc.

jesus is the Lord by position and relationship over those whom he saved, but to us there is still a working that out to our lives, for there will ALWAYS be areas and things that we will nee to submit over to him, for he takes us at a grogressive rate, for does he expect and require a new chrsitian to know as much as older one/

this seems to be leaning into that area where none have security, for none know if they have committed it all to Him yet!

Still read that if you confess with your mouth jesus as Lord, and belive in your heart God raised him from the Dead, you are saved!

And Lord there would be in the contex of seeing him as being God, know saying you submitted all to him right then and there, as he would not require that, as need to get in first!

 

[webdog]

This is not LS.


This is not complicating anything other than the gospel which is complex.
Saved by grace... yes
thru faith alone (which implies repentance)... yes
then we start to get... well... tell me where Jesus ever allowed any of his disciples to "start putting more and more of our lives under his lordship". It seems he just follow me, pick up your cross, sell everything, and etc.

The Gospel is not complex. Are you serious?

 

[Iconoclast]

jesus is the Lord by position and relationship over those whom he saved, but to us there is still a working that out to our lives, for there will ALWAYS be areas and things that we will nee to submit over to him, for he takes us at a grogressive rate, for does he expect and require a new chrsitian to know as much as older one/

this seems to be leaning into that area where none have security, for none know if they have committed it all to Him yet!

Still read that if you confess with your mouth jesus as Lord, and belive in your heart God raised him from the Dead, you are saved!

And Lord there would be in the contex of seeing him as being God, know saying you submitted all to him right then and there, as he would not require that, as need to get in first!

THis view of "submitting"over to him is unbiblical as stated...it comes from both wesleyan,and Keswick teachings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Life_movement

this is more biblical:
Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
1._____ They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through the same virtue, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
( Acts 20:32; Romans 6:5, 6; John 17:17; Ephesians 3:16-19; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:24; Colossians 1:11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 12:14 )

2._____This sanctification is throughout the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
( 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Romans 7:18, 23; Galatians 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11 )

3._____ In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome; and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word hath prescribed them.
( Romans 7:23; Romans 6:14; Ephesians 4:15, 16; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1 )

 

[Yeshua1]

THis view of "submitting"over to him is unbiblical as stated...it comes from both wesleyan,and Keswick teachings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Life_movement

this is more biblical:
Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
1._____ They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through the same virtue, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
( Acts 20:32; Romans 6:5, 6; John 17:17; Ephesians 3:16-19; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:24; Colossians 1:11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 12:14 )

2._____This sanctification is throughout the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
( 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Romans 7:18, 23; Galatians 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11 )

3._____ In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome; and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word hath prescribed them.
( Romans 7:23; Romans 6:14; Ephesians 4:15, 16; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1 )

Would say that this is a process though, and that we continue to mature, as NONE attain sinless perfection in this life, so if werevisit this topic a year from now, Lord willing, we will both have more of jesus controlling more areas of our lives fully! That we would do less "take it over now but I plan to take it back!"

 

[Iconoclast]

Would say that this is a process though, and that we continue to mature, as NONE attain sinless perfection in this life, so if werevisit this topic a year from now, Lord willing, we will both have more of jesus controlling more areas of our lives fully! That we would do less "take it over now but I plan to take it back!"

would say this statement is not biblical.We have all of Jesus and all of the Holy Spirit at salvation,and he has promised to never leave us or forsake us...can you show any verse saying we get"more " of Jesus?

read the confessional statement again,and compare it to this idea.

We are united to Christ in His fullness.

 

[DHK]

THis view of "submitting"over to him is unbiblical as stated...it comes from both wesleyan,and Keswick teachings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Life_movement

this is more biblical:
Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
1._____ They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through the same virtue, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
( Acts 20:32; Romans 6:5, 6; John 17:17; Ephesians 3:16-19; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:24; Colossians 1:11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 12:14 )

2._____This sanctification is throughout the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
( 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Romans 7:18, 23; Galatians 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11 )

3._____ In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome; and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word hath prescribed them.
( Romans 7:23; Romans 6:14; Ephesians 4:15, 16; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1 )

If this is salvation, then it is not the gospel I know that is taught in the Bible.
If this is salvation, then it is salvation by works and not of grace, nor by faith.
If this is salvation, it is not through Christ, but rather through man.
If this is salvation, it is a process and not an event.

Hence this is NOT salvation.