Lordship Salvation Defended

[InTheLight]

Luke 3:8
8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

<snip other verses>

Please give your definition of Lordship Salvation. Maybe start a thread "Lordship Salvation Defined" and then lay out what you believe it to be. Otherwise people are talking past each other and it leads to statements like these:

No argument will convince you but as for me I am at peace with the Bible.

Learn hermeneutics!!!!!!

So, what is your definition of Lordship Salvation?

 

[The Biblicist]

That's because you do not believe in LS and so no argument will convince you. You remind of the universalist whom denies hell and nothing will persuade him of its reality.

No, you simply cannot respond to what I spelled out in very clear language and so you take the easy but false path of ridicule. Regeneration and justification are based and established upon a fixed standard of sinless righteousness found only in the Person and works of Christ that is equal among all saints, but progressive sanctification is not fixed or equal among all saints.

Secondly, you refuse to distinguish what is true of the regenerate nature versus the person as a whole. You apparently do not believe that Romans 7:14-25 or Galatians 5:16-25 refers to an inward conflict within the regenerate man. If that is so, then you need to learn proper hermeneutics or if you do know proper hermeneutics you need to apply it rightly because only improper exegesis and improper interpretation of those passages will come to such a conclusion.

 

[JamesL]

One has to read the Bible and believe it which sad to say does not represent many on this board.

By simply reading the bible, some have come to believe we should be handling snakes, others believe physical healing is guaranteed to all believers, and others believe salvation is no more than getting to go to heaven.

It takes much more than reading the words from our own paradigm

 

[DHK]

It's the bible. I read it and I believe it. No argument will convince you but as for me I am at peace with the Bible.

Can you find that phrase in the Bible: "Lordship salvation"?
I have never seen it. How do you know this philosophy is there if it can't be seen in the Bible? Why are you so easily convinced it is there when it is not?
It seems to me you can't even come up with a simple definition of the term.

 

[evangelist6589]

I think you need to learn what hermeneutics is, I just finished the course in school.

And I did moons ago!

 

[evangelist6589]

Can you find that phrase in the Bible: "Lordship salvation"?
I have never seen it. How do you know this philosophy is there if it can't be seen in the Bible? Why are you so easily convinced it is there when it is not?
It seems to me you can't even come up with a simple definition of the term.

Can you find the word Trinity in the bible? I can't but the concept is there. LS means submission and surrender to the LS of Christ and that true converts will do this. False converts think surrender and submission is optional and that they may live anyway they please.

 

[evangelist6589]

By simply reading the bible, some have come to believe we should be handling snakes, others believe physical healing is guaranteed to all believers, and others believe salvation is no more than getting to go to heaven.



It takes much more than reading the words from our own paradigm

That's why we have teachers whom write books. But since you tossed your Gospel According to Jesus book you have failed to give Mac an opportunity to defend the argument.

Also remember biblical theology and exegesis. Exegesis alone without biblical theology one can conclude that handling snakes is required but since that text does not show anywhere else and since it was an addition to Mark its best to conclude its not original to Mark.

 

[evangelist6589]

No, you simply cannot respond to what I spelled out in very clear language and so you take the easy but false path of ridicule. Regeneration and justification are based and established upon a fixed standard of sinless righteousness found only in the Person and works of Christ that is equal among all saints, but progressive sanctification is not fixed or equal among all saints.

Secondly, you refuse to distinguish what is true of the regenerate nature versus the person as a whole. You apparently do not believe that Romans 7:14-25 or Galatians 5:16-25 refers to an inward conflict within the regenerate man. If that is so, then you need to learn proper hermeneutics or if you do know proper hermeneutics you need to apply it rightly because only improper exegesis and improper interpretation of those passages will come to such a conclusion.

I read the bible and believe it. But I will say those whom are more gifted than me have written books to defend LS.

MacArthur
Paul Washer
Ernest Reisinger

Have you read any of their books?

 

[evangelist6589]

Please give your definition of Lordship Salvation. Maybe start a thread "Lordship Salvation Defined" and then lay out what you believe it to be. Otherwise people are talking past each other and it leads to statements like these:











So, what is your definition of Lordship Salvation?

Submission and radical surrender to Christ to walk like Him. Requirements for salvation and not optional as non lord ship types teach.

 

[DHK]

Can you find the word Trinity in the bible? I can't but the concept is there. LS means submission and surrender to the LS of Christ and that true converts will do this. False converts think surrender and submission is optional and that they may live anyway they please.

The question is always the time frame isn't it?
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Did you obey the above verse when you were first saved? "Making Christ Lord" means becoming his disciple immediately, forsaking all that you have and following him. It is equivalent to leaving America and going to the foreign mission field. Have you done that yet? Or were you ready to do it the day you were saved? Do you think children are?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

I am not so sure that 90% or more of the posters on this board fit the qualification of what is expected of Christ in "Lordship salvation," much less a new believer, or of one who is about to trust Christ. If that is the case it is nigh to impossible to come to Christ.

 

[PreachTony]

Can you find the word Trinity in the bible? I can't but the concept is there. LS means submission and surrender to the LS of Christ and that true converts will do this. False converts think surrender and submission is optional and that they may live anyway they please.

So those of us who claim to be saved but do not buy into the precepts of Lordship Salvation are "false converts?"
I've never had my salvation questioned so much as when I started visiting Baptist Board.

That's why we have teachers whom write books. But since you tossed your Gospel According to Jesus book you have failed to give Mac an opportunity to defend the argument.

Also remember biblical theology and exegesis. Exegesis alone without biblical theology one can conclude that handling snakes is required but since that text does not show anywhere else and since it was an addition to Mark its best to conclude its not original to Mark.

Yes, but teachers WHO write books can be wrong. James was pointing out that simply reading the scripture is only part of the equation. We have to rely on God to bring revelation our hearts and minds concerning the scriptures. Do you really believe MacArthur to be an infallible source of scriptural exposition?

 

[gigabyte71]

I read the bible and believe it. But I will say those whom are more gifted than me have written books to defend LS.

Just not the entire Bible, right? Did you miss the 'Survey' principle in the Hermeneutics class you claim to have taken?

MacArthur
Paul Washer
Ernest Reisinger

Have you read any of their books?

But all of theirs from cover to cover.

 

[Yeshua1]

Luke 3:8
8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Gal 2:20
20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Rom 6:6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

1 John 2:3
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

John 15:14
14 “You are My friends if you do what I command you.

Mt 12:50
50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

John 8:31
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

Rom 6:17-18
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

1 John 2:4
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Are you defining LS as teaching then that either we must repent and forsake all known sins before salvation, or even afterwards then?

 

[JamesL]

Can you find the word Trinity in the bible? I can't but the concept is there. LS means submission and surrender to the LS of Christ and that true converts will do this. False converts think surrender and submission is optional and that they may live anyway they please.

I think you may be playing loose with your definition. Surrender what? Submit what?

Also, "true converts" aren't the only ones who try this "submission" thing you speak of.

You have more in common with Seventh Day Adventists than you do with any other sect. But look at their doctrine. They've clearly submitted to the written Law, but "in the Name of Christ"

This is where I was, pre-conversion. I was doing my best (so I thought) to obey the law in Christ's Name, all the while spewing condemnation toward anybody who didn't see things my way.

I was serving the ministry of death.

That's why I say Lordship proponents have either never been born again, or they have fallen from grace. I don't pretend to know which is the case, especially on an individual basis.

I will say, though, those who have been born again shall never come into condemnation, even if they have fallen from grace. They are crucifying the Son of God afresh, and are close to being accursed

 

[DHK]

Are you defining LS as teaching then that either we must repent and forsake all known sins before salvation, or even afterwards then?

The verses I posted are about discipleship as Jesus directed them to his disciples. "You cannot be my disciple." They do not say "You cannot be saved."
If they were about salvation, then salvation would be by works, and not by grace through faith. We don't believe in a works salvation. That is what LS teaches.

These scriptures do teach that true discipleship is costly and sacrificial. Most Americans are not willing to live a sacrificial life. "To deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Christ," is not an easy command to follow.

(Sorry, I thought you directed that post the verses I listed)

 

[JamesL]

The question is always the time frame isn't it?
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Did you obey the above verse when you were first saved? "Making Christ Lord" means becoming his disciple immediately, forsaking all that you have and following him. It is equivalent to leaving America and going to the foreign mission field. Have you done that yet? Or were you ready to do it the day you were saved? Do you think children are?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

I am not so sure that 90% or more of the posters on this board fit the qualification of what is expected of Christ in "Lordship salvation," much less a new believer, or of one who is about to trust Christ. If that is the case it is nigh to impossible to come to Christ.

That's the best post so far in this thread

 

[Iconoclast]

Are you defining LS as teaching then that either we must repent and forsake all known sins before salvation, or even afterwards then?

which sins were you able to keep since professing your faith in Christ ?
which sins did you not have to repent of ?
what sins were you able to continue to practice
which sins are you able to continue in in order that grace can much more abound

 

[JamesL]

which sins were you able to keep since professing your faith in Christ ?
which sins did you not have to repent of ?
what sins were you able to continue to practice
which sins are you able to continue in in order that grace can much more abound

Spoken like a true Seventh Day Adventist

 

[Iconoclast]

Spoken like a true Seventh Day Adventist

I do not think you can give a biblical definition of salvation. ...and sanctification
you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[DHK]

which sins were you able to keep since professing your faith in Christ ?
which sins did you not have to repent of ?
what sins were you able to continue to practice
which sins are you able to continue in in order that grace can much more abound

The question is not about "ability."
The question is about "nature."

We still have an old nature, the propensity to do evil, which Paul describes in the latter half of Romans 7. There are two natures struggling within him, which at the end of the chapter he cries out and says:
"Who shall deliver me from the body of this death." And the answer immediately comes:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The choice was Paul's, whether to give into sin or not. Sometimes he did. Do you think he lost his salvation when he did? Was Paul perfect?