Lordship Salvation Defended

[Revmitchell]

The problem with all of this is there are people who come to Jesus, much like the rich young ruler, and want a Savior but who care nothing about the Lord. They want to miss the possibility of going to hell but they intend on carrying on their lives as before. They do not want God in their life, they do not want a new life, they only want to miss hell.

Now you all can call it something else. You all can delineate your understanding of this however you want to but, in the end if you come to God for salvation you have to want a relationship with God. Not just what God can provide.

In order to have that relationship you have to have a desire to do it His way. To live life His way. To submit to Him. Even early on as Christians we do not do that perfect anymore than we do later on but the desire for God and His way is an imperative.

Someone who has no care for God, nor concern for His ways is not a Christian. Period. No matter how much they believe He exists and can save them. No matter how much they want His salvation.

Repentance is not just about changing a belief from not believing in Him to believing in Him. It is about desiring the very God who can provide the very salvation everyone wants.

 

[Yeshua1]

The rich young ruler was told to sell all that he had, give it to the poor, and follow Christ.

That's pretty radical, don't you think?

Jesus was NOT calling him at that time to get saved, but was addressing the false idols in his life, knowing that he would chose them over him!

 

[Yeshua1]

The problem with all of this is there are people who come to Jesus, much like the rich young ruler, and want a Savior but who care nothing about the Lord. They want to miss the possibility of going to hell but they intend on carrying on their lives as before. They do not want God in their life, they do not want a new life, they only want to miss hell.

Now you all can call it something else. You all can delineate your understanding of this however you want to but, in the end if you come to God for salvation you have to want a relationship with God. Not just what God can provide.

In order to have that relationship you have to have a desire to do it His way. To live life His way. To submit to Him. Even early on as Christians we do not do that perfect anymore than we do later on but the desire for God and His way is an imperative.

Someone who has no care for God, nor concern for His ways is not a Christian. Period. No matter how much they believe He exists and can save them. No matter how much they want His salvation.

Repentance is not just about changing a belief from not believing in Him to believing in Him. It is about desire the very God who can provide the very salvation everyone wants.

How much does God require a sinner to repent of, and to stop doing in order to get saved by Jesus though?

And how much obedience does God require of us to get saved while yet sinners?

 

[Revmitchell]

How much does God require a sinner to repent of, and to stop doing in order to get saved by Jesus though?

And how much obedience does God require of us to get saved while yet sinners?

Ok you just read my post and then ignored it. Your questions are a strawman. Go back with the intent and desire to actually understand my post in full comprehension.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok you just read my post and then ignored it. Your questions are a strawman. Go back with the intent and desire to actually understand my post in full comprehension.

I did read it through, and th question srill remains...

What does God require from a lost sinner in order to have Him able to save them?

And is obedience to God after saved required to have God merit keeping us still saved?

 

[Iconoclast]

The problem with all of this is there are people who come to Jesus, much like the rich young ruler, and want a Savior but who care nothing about the Lord. They want to miss the possibility of going to hell but they intend on carrying on their lives as before. They do not want God in their life, they do not want a new life, they only want to miss hell.

Now you all can call it something else. You all can delineate your understanding of this however you want to but, in the end if you come to God for salvation you have to want a relationship with God. Not just what God can provide.

In order to have that relationship you have to have a desire to do it His way. To live life His way. To submit to Him. Even early on as Christians we do not do that perfect anymore than we do later on but the desire for God and His way is an imperative.

Someone who has no care for God, nor concern for His ways is not a Christian. Period. No matter how much they believe He exists and can save them. No matter how much they want His salvation.

:applause:

Repentance is not just about changing a belief from not believing in Him to believing in Him. It is about desiring the very God who can provide the very salvation everyone wants.

:applause:

 

[Revmitchell]

I did read it through, and th question srill remains...

What does God require from a lost sinner in order to have Him able to save them?

And is obedience to God after saved required to have God merit keeping us still saved?

No the question does not remain. Your question has nothing to do with LS or my post. It is a red herring. If you want to quote me and expect a response you need to ask questions based on what I said. Not based on your agenda.

 

[gigabyte71]

The problem with all of this is there are people who come to Jesus, much like the rich young ruler, and want a Savior but who care nothing about the Lord. They want to miss the possibility of going to hell but they intend on carrying on their lives as before. They do not want God in their life, they do not want a new life, they only want to miss hell.

Now you all can call it something else. You all can delineate your understanding of this however you want to but, in the end if you come to God for salvation you have to want a relationship with God. Not just what God can provide.

In order to have that relationship you have to have a desire to do it His way. To live life His way. To submit to Him. Even early on as Christians we do not do that perfect anymore than we do later on but the desire for God and His way is an imperative.

Someone who has no care for God, nor concern for His ways is not a Christian. Period. No matter how much they believe He exists and can save them. No matter how much they want His salvation.

Repentance is not just about changing a belief from not believing in Him to believing in Him. It is about desiring the very God who can provide the very salvation everyone wants.

Can't say where I stand on LS, not really familiar with the term, but I do find it difficult to believe someone who claims they are a Christian, yet have no appearance of a change in their lives.

But here is my question, does God require us to give our sin to be saved or do we start eradicating sin from our lives because we are saved?

 

[PreachTony]

Can't say where I stand on LS, not really familiar with the term, but I do find it difficult to believe someone who claims they are a Christian, yet have no appearance of a change in their lives.

But here is my question, does God require us to give our sin to be saved or do we start eradicating sin from our lives because we are saved?

I believe that someone who is saved should have an evident change in their lives, though I do not believe that salvation of the soul frees the body from ever sinning again. We still struggle with sin, even after salvation. In fact, I would argue we struggle even more, as Satan would just love to have the trophy of a "Christian" falling into sin, so we are likely tempted even more.

As to your last question, I suppose I'm in the latter camp. I believe we begin and continually strive to eliminate sin from our lives as an after-effect to salvation.

 

[Revmitchell]

Can't say where I stand on LS, not really familiar with the term, but I do find it difficult to believe someone who claims they are a Christian, yet have no appearance of a change in their lives.

But here is my question, does God require us to give our sin to be saved or do we start eradicating sin from our lives because we are saved?

Not to be dismissive of your question but, it is the wrong question. The reason it is wrong is because it misses the point and what should be the primary understanding.

See even lost people can remove some sins from their lives. It happens every day. People stop being drunks, drug abusers, people abusers etc.

The issue is not counting sins. The issue goes far beyond that. The real issue is in the desire of the heart. Jesus new that when he spoke with the rich young ruler. By and large that guy had few sins to deal with compared to many others. What Jesus was concerned with was his heart for God.

Jesus said if you do not take up your cross and follow me you are not worthy of me. Salvation and having a heart for God is not just about giving up sin. It is much, much more than that. That is why when these silly little questions gets asked about how much sin has to be given up is asked, the people who ask them tell on themselves.

The Christian life as a whole is about sacrifice in all of our daily lives not just about sin. It is about loving God and wanting God not just what He gives us. The rich young ruler already had so much and he was just wanting to add to his wealth in life by securing salvation. However, he was not willing to sacrifice the very thing that made him more secure that God did. Scripture says he walked away sorrowful. He walked away without salvation. He was lost and destined for hell.

Trying to narrow it all down to a count of how many sins we give up is childish, and misses the point.

 

[JamesL]

The problem with all of this is there are people who come to Jesus, much like the rich young ruler, and want a Savior but who care nothing about the Lord. They want to miss the possibility of going to hell but they intend on carrying on their lives as before. They do not want God in their life, they do not want a new life, they only want to miss hell.

Now you all can call it something else. You all can delineate your understanding of this however you want to but, in the end if you come to God for salvation you have to want a relationship with God. Not just what God can provide.

In order to have that relationship you have to have a desire to do it His way. To live life His way. To submit to Him. Even early on as Christians we do not do that perfect anymore than we do later on but the desire for God and His way is an imperative.

Someone who has no care for God, nor concern for His ways is not a Christian. Period. No matter how much they believe He exists and can save them. No matter how much they want His salvation.

Repentance is not just about changing a belief from not believing in Him to believing in Him. It is about desiring the very God who can provide the very salvation everyone wants.

And you will search in vain for any scripture which teaches your "relationship" nonsense.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would convince the world of sin, and righteousness, and judgment. He never once mentioned "relationship", neither did any apostle - much less requiring a desire for one prior to being justified.

Someone who has no care for God ?? That seems to describe those who Christ died for. Whole we were enemies of God...Christ died for the UNgodly.


The well have need of a physician, but those who are sick do.

All these anti-gospel requirements in order to become worthy of the grace of God. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I believed that nonsense for 20 years, trying to drum up enough sorrow, confess enough sins, deny myself more, commit stronger, and lived in fear the whole time.

That warped teaching of yours makes people twice the sons of hell as they were before

 

[DHK]

the question is really about a believer's changed relationship to sin.

You do not have a good handle on this although you are trying to be slick using the terminology of the Lordship guys .
I caught your slick move DHK......but it does not help you here...lol

of course all Christians struggle and are commanded to mortify sin .....that is not the issue at all.

The issue in LS boils down to works vs. grace.
Is salvation by grace through faith (a one time event)? or,
Is salvation by grace through faith + all the commands of discipleship added in at the same time--which makes it a works salvation.
Which one? You can't have both.

 

[Revmitchell]

The issue in LS boils down to works vs. grace.

Until you actually know what LS is you should refrain from speaking about it. You are clueless.

 

[JamesL]

The issue in LS boils down to works vs. grace.
Is salvation by grace through faith (a one time event)? or,
Is salvation by grace through faith + all the commands of discipleship added in at the same time--which makes it a works salvation.
Which one? You can't have both.

Yes, right there.

Grace to the undeserving, righteousness in the Holy Spirit.

Then after that, becoming conformed to the image of Christ

 

[DHK]

Until you actually know what LS is you should refrain from speaking about it. You are clueless.

Lordship Salvation as defined by MacArthur and Washer is wrong, and yes, I have read them both.
There is such a thing as progressive sanctification which seems to be denied in LS. That is what is missing. Have you read my previous posts in this thread? I suggest you do.
The concept of "making Christ Lord" is absurd. One cannot "make" or command God to do anything. Who do you think you are that you can command God to be Lord of your life? He already is. He is Lord of all, whether you like it or not!

 

[Revmitchell]

There is such a thing as progressive sanctification which seems to be denied in LS.

Yea, it seems that way because you want it too. As someone who holds to that position I can tell you that you are misrepresenting the entire thing. Disagreeing is one thing. Disagreeing the way you are is evil.

 

[DHK]

Yea, it seems that way because you want it too. As someone who holds to that position I can tell you that you are misrepresenting the entire thing. Disagreeing is one thing. Disagreeing the way you are is evil.

You call me evil because I tell you the truth. Not much testimony there.
When a person comes and preaches a salvation message, and tells them to forsake all, and commit their lives to Christ, they are wrong. It is as simple as that.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yea, it seems that way because you want it too. As someone who holds to that position I can tell you that you are misrepresenting the entire thing. Disagreeing is one thing. Disagreeing the way you are is evil.[/QUOTE]

:thumbs::applause::thumbs: this seems to be the case:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

You call me evil because I tell you the truth. Not much testimony there.
When a person comes and preaches a salvation message, and tells them to forsake all, and commit their lives to Christ, they are wrong. It is as simple as that.

59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Lordship Salvation as defined by MacArthur and Washer is wrong, and yes, I have read them both.

offer some quotes in context where you think they are mistaken

There is such a thing as progressive sanctification which seems to be denied in LS.

I have not seen this denied, in fact I have heard both men speak of progressive sanctification:thumbs:

That is what is missing. Have you read my previous posts in this thread? I suggest you do.

I have not....I started from the back this time...I will take alook:thumbs:

The concept of "making Christ Lord" is absurd. One cannot "make" or command God to do anything. Who do you think you are that you can command God to be Lord of your life? He already is. He is Lord of all, whether you like it or not!

that is exactly what I quoted to you several months ago...glad you liked it:thumbs: