My question still stands--how do you determine if the people you are putting in your musical program are saved or not?
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Lost persons participating in music program
- Thread starter Berean
- Start date
My question still stands--how do you determine if the people you are putting in your musical program are saved or not?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Given that the term used in my question is "unsaved," the statement you are making does not apply to Christian worship participants. The question is, "how one would justify putting before the congregation an unsaved person whose motivation and purpose for 'performing' is self-centered and self-aggrandizing, rather than to the purpose of glorifying God?"
That isn't the question you are answering.
Thousand Hills
Active Member
No reason to apologize to me, I do like to poke a bit from time to time with the cattle prod. :type:
Regarding the scripture posted by ITL on post #15, both RevMitchell and TND correctly put that verse in the right context. :thumbs:
quantumfaith
Active Member
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Given the question posed in the OP:
... I would think the answer to that is obvious.
Someone approaches the pastor or the music minister and asks if they can sing in the choir. Would anyone give me an example of how you would screen this person?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
"I'm sorry, not sure of your name ... are you joining the church?"
"I'd like to."
"Good, can I ask you a couple questions?"
"Sure"
"When did you become a Christian?"
"I've been one all my life."
"Really? That's great! When we you saved?"
"Well, I've always attended church ... even when I was little."
"But when did you commit your life to Christ?"
"Well ... my parents are Christian."
"I understand ... what I want to know is, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?"
"Oh, of course I do! I pray and read the Bible and now I'm coming to your church!"
"Great! And when did you come to know Him?"
"Well ... uh ... I always have."
"I see. And how has knowing Him changed your life, convinced you of a calling to ministry, and made you desire to show His love to others through your service to them and Him?"
"What?"
BINGO! Not saved.
Anyone involved in any ministry at our church must sign a ministry covenant. One absolute is that they are a believer. Another is that they must live a life that glorifies God and that if there is something in their life that shows that they are not qualified for ministry, they will be asked to step down. No one needs to be perfect but we had an incidence where we had to ask someone to step down from ministry and it ended up as a mess (she gave alcohol to underage kids) and so now we need to cover our butts.
The unsaved are more than welcome to attend the church, be involved in youth group, Sunday school, small groups, the preschool - all of that but to be in ministry, one must be a believer and a member of the church.
The unsaved are more than welcome to attend the church, be involved in youth group, Sunday school, small groups, the preschool - all of that but to be in ministry, one must be a believer and a member of the church.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
"I'm sorry, but the choir praises, glorifies and edifies the Lord. I'm afraid, in your current position, you don't know what that means. I don't say that to be mean, it simply is a fact. You're actually outside the fellowship of Christ right now, but let me explain to you how you can remedy that, and sing in the choir to His glory. Shall we?"
convicted1
Guest
In the ORB's, we don't have a choir, but congregational singing. We usually line our songs, but some times, we sing straight out songs. Only christians line songs.
TBS, one time a few months ago, we had some visitors from a church in our association. A fellow lined the song "Sweet Glories Rush Upon My Sight", and boy, did he line it beautifully!!! After church, I asked him how long he'd been in church, and he told me he wasn't. Apparently, God was already working on him, because a few days, or weeks later, he sent me a message on FB, inviting me to his baptism....
God is good....
TBS, one time a few months ago, we had some visitors from a church in our association. A fellow lined the song "Sweet Glories Rush Upon My Sight", and boy, did he line it beautifully!!! After church, I asked him how long he'd been in church, and he told me he wasn't. Apparently, God was already working on him, because a few days, or weeks later, he sent me a message on FB, inviting me to his baptism....
God is good....
We don't allow banjo-thumpin' honkeytonk-singin' bluejean wearin' miscreants to praise our God, no matter how saved you are. Repent from that African-made instrument of Satan, take out yer earring, buy a suit and we'll talk about it.
I was actually told that by a preacher in Massachusetts. (paraphrased) I now attend a church without a choir, where everyone sings out of hymnals, with a single piano for accompaniment.
But I stand by my statement. Church is a gathering of saints.
We have an opening for a banjo-thumpin' honkeytonk-singin' bluejean wearin' miscreants to praise our God; Saved you are.
And what about using that time to feed the Body of Christ to equip them to go out into the highways and byways to evangelize the lost?
Why outsource your duty to evangelize to the pastor? Isn't the church supposed to be for the ekklesia?
Not knowingly. Why would we knowingly turn our church's ministry over to the unsaved?
You know me and you know I like the same music as you do. You also know that I wear bluejeans and wore an earring.
But I believe there is a time and place for those things and church isn't one of them. I believe it should be a reverent occasion.
Same here. Plus, we don't allow "special music".
It might be a bit extreme to "card" everyone who volunteers for the choir, but I have to say it might be a good idea.
I've seen folks, good saved Baptist folks, decide they "need a little help with the music." And watched as that door they opened turned into a portal for Satan to get his foot in the door.
Watched that church go from thriving to dying. Watched it go from reverent services to a honky tonk.
Today it has one foot in the grave, and is the only SBC church in its county. Some want to boot the honky tonky music leader and turn the church around. Some of have said they will return if they do.
But he doesn't want to give up his gig. It is beginning to appear it isn't his only gig, only the other is far less....godly.
A conundrum that could have been avoided.
I've seen folks, good saved Baptist folks, decide they "need a little help with the music." And watched as that door they opened turned into a portal for Satan to get his foot in the door.
Watched that church go from thriving to dying. Watched it go from reverent services to a honky tonk.
Today it has one foot in the grave, and is the only SBC church in its county. Some want to boot the honky tonky music leader and turn the church around. Some of have said they will return if they do.
But he doesn't want to give up his gig. It is beginning to appear it isn't his only gig, only the other is far less....godly.
A conundrum that could have been avoided.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
I can just imagine if Elvis Presley had visited any church back when he was alive and ask the church if he could sing How Great Thou Art, id say none of them would have turned him down. :laugh:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Why would they? He was most likely a brother in Christ, though most wouldn't know it from his actions. Still, Elvis' Bible, filled with notes from his personal Bible studies, sold at auction in September 2012 for twice what the auction house was expecting. Looks like faith lived in him, even if he didn't always make it visible.
And no, I don't want to read a lecture on "fruit."
Someone mentioned that everyone, according to our Savior, is invited to be part of the church, and I agree.
But - the invitation to be part of the church is not "come join the choir!" You're NOT part of "the church" unless you are a believer.
Believers go to church to gather with other believers and have one tiny bit of time AWAY from the world. The unbelievers are part of THAT world, not ours. Apart from that, the time with other believers once a week, our job is to bring others into the church by spreading the gospel message.
If you want to make Sundays about inviting the world to your place of gathering and having them join in, then make your day with other believers another day of the week, like pastors and teachers and those who work on Sundays (or whatever day you gather) tend to do. Hopefully that's what they do - to get their break and refresh their spirits. Everyone needs that, it's required, and if you don't do it, you're going to burn out spiritually. We're told to do it for a good reason!
Whatever the decision, it needs to be made by the entire congregation. It sounds like a great idea to have people come and join into an activity of that nature. Just don't let it take over your ONE TIME to be away from the world.
But - the invitation to be part of the church is not "come join the choir!" You're NOT part of "the church" unless you are a believer.
Believers go to church to gather with other believers and have one tiny bit of time AWAY from the world. The unbelievers are part of THAT world, not ours. Apart from that, the time with other believers once a week, our job is to bring others into the church by spreading the gospel message.
If you want to make Sundays about inviting the world to your place of gathering and having them join in, then make your day with other believers another day of the week, like pastors and teachers and those who work on Sundays (or whatever day you gather) tend to do. Hopefully that's what they do - to get their break and refresh their spirits. Everyone needs that, it's required, and if you don't do it, you're going to burn out spiritually. We're told to do it for a good reason!
Whatever the decision, it needs to be made by the entire congregation. It sounds like a great idea to have people come and join into an activity of that nature. Just don't let it take over your ONE TIME to be away from the world.
To be honest, it's not up to you to decide who is lost. Whatever happened to Romans 3:23?