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Featured Love Alone Saves (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jun 3, 2017.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    It's not about "feelings" Adonia. Yes, each of us have our own walk and our own experiences with the Lord.

    But we are not to base our beliefs upon our feelings. This debate here between us is the perfect example of what not to do.

    You have set your beliefs according to your "feeling" that those who show love can reject Jesus Christ and still be A-ok with God. We are to align our beliefs with what God says and adjust our feelings accordingly.

    Do you realize how detrimental your position is to your loved ones and friends? 1) If you do not understand that without receiving Christ in this lifetime a person, no matter how loving, is going to end up in hell, then you will not be burdened to witness to that person and beg them to call upon the Lord for the forgiveness of sin and for salvation. They will look at you one day on their way to the lake of fire and cry out to you WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING? DID YOU KNOW THIS WOULD HAPPEN TO ME AND YOU LET ME BELIEVE I WAS OK WITH GOD?

    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins"

    This is the Truth Adonia! This is the Word of God! Don't let your friends and family die without having the chance to know this and the chance to call upon the Lord. Good deeds and loving thy neighbour will not save them!!!!
     
    #61 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    With this quote and all the other ones after, I have no idea what you are talking about so I really cannot reply. You are somewhere off in your mind way off the topic or anything that i said.
     
    #62 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Say you are not faithful, is she still your wife?

    Say you get yourself a certificate of divorce from the state, is she still your wife according to God?
     
    #63 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You will not find any Scripture which supports such a thing. You must first know what the Scripture says about being born-again. Then you must interpret Scripture with Scripture and you will not find any Scripture which promotes a born of God Christian losing their eternal life standing with God.
     
    #64 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Then you have not studied out what it means to be born again.

    How can one stop believing in that which they have a personal knowledge is an absolute truth?

    "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" (Ro 8)

    The Spirit did not just come along side of me Herbert. The Spirit transformed me, a new creature, the old is gone! The old that rejected God is gone! I have been given a gift, a new heart, one that does not reject God anymore. I may fall, I may doubt, I may get angry with God, but God is always in me, speaking to my spirit, comforting me, carrying me through my times of unbelief, my times of sin. Ever interceding on my behalf, never leaving nor forsaking me. I and God are one. I have been born of God!

    "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh"

    With all due respect, I really don't think you understand the rebirth and the God purposed consequences thereof. It is a marriage which cannot be undone nor would anyone being married to the perfect Love ever desire to for it to be undone. You are stuck on believing that there is something you can do that would make God say "I divorce you". This cannot happen, God always stays faithful, we do not, we waver! This is why it is said that Catholics think they are working their way to salvation. You say you are saved by grace through faith alone, but you do not live that way. You believe your own acts could debunk your salvation, that is not grace through faith alone.
     
    #65 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    The Bible teaches a universal depravity of the human spirit from the fall onward. Start reading in Genesis 3 and see the fall of mankind. The depravity is stark from Cain and Abel onward.

    What I note is that you attempt to brush off Paul's comments in Romans 3 and completely ignore the passages where predestination is stated. Adonia was either ignorant or confused in proclaiming that predestination was created by Calvinists.
    Even more so the Bible tells us that this is love! That God predestined those who would be saved.
    Shocking how the Bible destroys the teachings of Rome isn't it.
     
    #66 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Church and non-Christians

    839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

    The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

    840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

    841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

    842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:



    All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
    ww.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
     
    #67 Yeshua1, Jun 5, 2017
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Thanks! Yeah that pretty much shows the RCC is not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
     
    #68 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  9. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    How could I be out of my mind if your the only christian here who is fully regenerated, Saint, one with christ, Once Saved always saved.

    I think you just PRETEND to believe what you say you believe. But SINCERELY you haven't asked God over for morning coffee have you?
     
    #69 utilyan, Jun 5, 2017
  10. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Yes steaver, I also had my "come to Jesus" moment in my life at 30 years of age. My soul was overflowing and my life was renewed with a new purpose, with Our Lord being now being a serious part of it.

    And at that same time I returned to the church of my youth, sought reconciliation and have been a faithful adherent ever since. I am thankful for His wonderful church with it's beautiful liturgy and sacramental way of communion with God.

    In my opinion, the Church's teachings line up perfectly with the Holy Scriptures, with the Mass being the foremost means of seeing the Holy Scriptures alive right in front of us. That is where I find Jesus Christ - His life, His death, and His resurrection, all expressed so beautifully in the teachings and the liturgical worship of the Holy Catholic Church.
     
    #70 Adonia, Jun 6, 2017
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    And you continue making my point. Not sure anyone knows what you are talking about.
     
    #71 steaver, Jun 6, 2017
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I understand. In my experience I find all those things from within as the Holy Spirit leads me through life. There is not one day that goes by when the Spirit within me does not dwell on the life , death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I experience this everyday. And getting together for corporate worship in song and praise, and the study of the Word is very satisfying indeed! Praise God!

    With all due respect Adonia, when I see the bishop waving around a smoking pot it really does nothing for me. Can't find that in the bible anywhere.
     
    #72 steaver, Jun 6, 2017
  13. herbert

    herbert Member
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    steaver,

    So many remarks here bring us back to what I have come to see as the most fundamental point deserving consideration. I so often see comments such as your "Can't find that in the bible anywhere." Well, what exactly is that supposed to prove? Neither have I found a verse in the Bible which says "Everything that a Christian should fervently believe must be explicitly laid out in the Holy Scriptures, which, by the way, consist of these 66 books."

    As I said in a previous comment, I think of it this way: Imagine that instead of requiring that Christian doctrines be explicitly spelled out in Scripture, you only accept doctrines which are printed on pink paper. Imagine, too, that this law which you have come to live by is itself nowhere printed on pink paper... What are you to do? Will you acknowledge the fact that the Bible nowhere says something such as "All that a Christian is to believe must be explicitly presented in Scripture (which consists of these 66 books)"?

    Also, about that "Can't find that in the bible anywhere," you'd better look more closely! ;-)

    Revelation 5:8 has just such a thing... Elders (Presbyteroi) presenting bowls full of incense to God as an intercession on behalf of others...

    In Him,

    Herbert
     
    #73 herbert, Jun 6, 2017
  14. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Is that why they do it?
     
    #74 steaver, Jun 6, 2017
  15. herbert

    herbert Member
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    steaver,

    This is another example of the type of comment which only holds if indeed you have a completely accurate conception of what the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" entails. In other words, your using your standards for what constitutes the Gospel as the measure by which you conclude that the Catholic Church is teaching a false gospel. But you standards and mine (and how we've come to identify them) are the very things under scrutiny here in this discussion. For I read those paragraphs from the Catechism and see them as entirely harmonious with the whole of Scripture.

    In Him,

    Herbert
     
    #75 herbert, Jun 6, 2017
  16. herbert

    herbert Member
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    You said you can't find a bishop "waving" around a "smoking pot" in the Bible. I was just pointing out that the Bible does present such a thing. And why priests do what they do at Mass is certainly analagous to what the elders are doing in Revelation 5.

    In Him,

    Herbert
     
    #76 herbert, Jun 6, 2017
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You are exactly correct. This is why it is said that the RCC preaches another Gospel. And you would say I am preaching another Gospel or not the "full Gospel", which I reject that. The "full gospel" is rooted on this....

    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    Now if there be ANYTHING you want to declare is part of the "full Gospel" then it CANNOT contradict these words which Jesus Christ spoke. No belief in Jesus Christ equals the wrath of God remaining on those folks NO MATTER how much love they may be showing their neighbour or how much love they appear to have for a God.

    This is our impasse!
     
    #77 steaver, Jun 6, 2017
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Not sure you answered my question. Is this why they wave around the smoke?
     
    #78 steaver, Jun 6, 2017
  19. herbert

    herbert Member
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    steaver,

    Just because I don't reach your conclusions doesn't mean that I've "not studied out what it means to be born again."

    A Mormon or Jehovah's Witness could say the same thing to a friend who's considering leaving the fellowship... Your appeal sounds good. But you're actually appealing to your own subjective judgment, something which is certainly fallible. You're doing this, however, by blurring the lines between your own conclusions and God's immutable nature.

    More later!

    In Him,

    Herbert
     
    #79 herbert, Jun 6, 2017
  20. herbert

    herbert Member
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    steaver,

    The use of incense among religious peoples is practically universal and certainly culturally and doctrinally multivalent. Do you really want to open that "can of worms"? If you do, maybe you should start another thread...

    In Him,

    Herbert
     
    #80 herbert, Jun 6, 2017
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