Love wins

[glfredrick]

That's true. The part about it being written by Rob Bell actually is true.

Everything else is junk.



Could you please refresh my memory? Where does the Bible say, "Go ahead and indulge in false teachings. There's probably something good there somewhere"?

While I agree with you in concept, in pragmatic terms, we would have to toss EVERY book ever written by men (which some certainly advocate around here and elsewhere, but why are they out here WRITING their thoughts if they feel that strongly about that?) for there is no book that is 100% factually true.

In the work of theology, there is much give and take, and the simple fact that we're still hashing out issues 2000 years after the formation of the church means that there is still disagreement as to doctrines in Scripture.

Read and hold what is true and discard the rest.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

While I agree with you in concept, in pragmatic terms, we would have to toss EVERY book ever written by men (which some certainly advocate around here and elsewhere, but why are they out here WRITING their thoughts if they feel that strongly about that?) for there is no book that is 100% factually true.

Nobody is talking about a book being 100% factually true. We're talking about a known wolf expressing false teaching and introducing it to the Church.

Read and hold what is true and discard the rest.

No thank you. I think I'll just mark wolves and those who cause divisions and have nothing to do with them in the first place.

Why do you have to go to wolves for your theology when there are so many good books written by Godly men with sound doctrine?

 

[glfredrick]

So don't read it...

I've simply found that reading oppositional works fosters better understanding, and it can clarify my own doctrine. Sort of like debating on this site, for instance. :wavey:

 

[ReformedBaptist]

So don't read it...

I've simply found that reading oppositional works fosters better understanding, and it can clarify my own doctrine. Sort of like debating on this site, for instance. :wavey:

I think if someone is going to critque the book and refute should they be so inclined, ought to read the book.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think if someone is going to critque the book and refute should they be so inclined, ought to read the book.

I will wait for it to come out on CD & listen to it as I exercise. I get better exercise when Im aggravated ...LOL

 

[annsni]

I will wait for it to come out on CD & listen to it as I exercise. I get better exercise when Im aggravated ...LOL

LOL - Love it.

I have to say that I really caution people with a book like this. If they are able to be truly discerning, it's OK for them to read it but if they are not, it's really best that they read books that are good instead. Some people get sucked in by a book like this because it is probably well written and appealing - but not Biblically sound in all it teaches and for those people, I hate for them to get false teaching.

 

[glfredrick]

LOL - Love it.

I have to say that I really caution people with a book like this. If they are able to be truly discerning, it's OK for them to read it but if they are not, it's really best that they read books that are good instead. Some people get sucked in by a book like this because it is probably well written and appealing - but not Biblically sound in all it teaches and for those people, I hate for them to get false teaching.

I found "The Shack" to be a book like that. When I finished it, I could hardly wait to let everyone know what a great book I'd found (even though I realized there were some difficulties!). Then, I paused for a second and wondered about my enthusiasm for the book. I was more "enthused" over a work of fiction than the Bible? Why? I did not share the book, and instead did some more work to ferret out the inconsistencies in the theology.

I did likewise with Dan Brown's stuff (as well as the books he plagiarized to write "The DaVinci Code"), and some others like it.

Oh, and I did the same thing with Jacob Arminius, John Wesley, and a host of other theological works...

I read source material to understand the arguments and to speak intelligently about those materials instead of relying on what someone else said about the work on their web site somewhere.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I read source material to understand the arguments and to speak intelligently about those materials instead of relying on what someone else said about the work on their web site somewhere.

And this habit of yours makes you a credible source of critique and allows you to speak with some authority about the issues.

Even though I often disagree with your conclusions, it is clear you are a thoughtful and careful theologian. :thumbsup:

 

[glfredrick]

And this habit of yours makes you a credible source of critique and allows you to speak with some authority about the issues.

Even though I often disagree with your conclusions, it is clear you are a thoughtful and careful theologian. :thumbsup:

Thanks, I appreciate that!

I, of course, filter what I read through my own worldview lens, as does everyone else, but one of my goals is to be as accurate in I can in formulating my propositions and when I speak of the beliefs of others. I really have nothing to gain by working on strawman arguments.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I considered downloading it to my ipod. I have to drive to Atlanta and back tomorrow and that would be just about enough listening time and one can always use some agression when driving in Atlanta! But Itunes wants $14.95 for it! I can get kindle version cheaper!

GL, have you read it yet? (do you dare say yes? lol) Or is it just on your list?

What a surprise.

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[glfredrick]

I considered downloading it to my ipod. I have to drive to Atlanta and back tomorrow and that would be just about enough listening time and one can always use some agression when driving in Atlanta! But Itunes wants $14.95 for it! I can get kindle version cheaper!

GL, have you read it yet? (do you dare say yes? lol) Or is it just on your list?



:laugh: :laugh:

On my list. I've done enough research on the book to know why I want to read it and I will as soon as I can find it used for a couple of bucks. I read too much to pay full price for books!

 

[quantumfaith]

Here is the reason why we SHOULD read this book.

First, it is groundbreaking. Any source material for a new theology that we will be plagued with for decades ought be read while fresh, for several reasons; to actually KNOW what was or was not said by the original author, and to have the academic credibility to discuss the work from a position of knowledge instead of hearsay.

Second, Bell, for his theological faults, is a gifted communicator. We can learn from the method of his communication, but probably not so much from the substance he communicates.

Third, Bell's book is not completely a lie. There are some thought-provoking discussions within the pages, including an overview of the Evangelical church world with some pithy insights that we ought pay heed. In this case, discernment to "eat the meat and spit out the bones" is in order. I think that there is something to learn from Bell, if only arguments that lead to heretical thought if carried to their ultimate ends.

I do not advocate reading in such a way as to make Bell money... That means the library, etc.

Much more worthy commentary than your earlier dig and shot across the bow. Much more in line with your level of maturity and intellect. Oh and BTW, I have no plans to read it, to many other good things to read.

 

[Alive in Christ]

John Deere Fan....

Could you please refresh my memory? Where does the Bible say, "Go ahead and indulge in false teachings. There's probably something good there somewhere"?

The reason we should read questionable material is so that we can can talk intelligently about it in conversation.

In addition, there could very well be some good, rich, edifying teachings in it that will bless us.

Ever heard the admonition to "eat the chicken, and throw away the bones"??

AiC

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The reason we should read questionable material is so that we can can talk intelligently about it in conversation.

Why do we have to study false teachers to be able to point out false teaching? Why shouldn't we be so familiar with the Word of God that when a false teaching pops up, we can immediately refute it from scripture?

In addition, there could very well be some good, rich, edifying teachings in it that will bless us.

How on Earth is that Biblical??? What Bible verse could possibly lead you to believe that we're to study woves and false teachers in order to find edifying teachings?

Ever heard the admonition to "eat the chicken, and throw away the bones"??

Ever heard the verse, "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. (that's Philipians 4:8 for you liberals)"

I asked earlier and nobody wanted to answer, but putting aside the fact that your attitude toward wolves and false teachers is Unbiblical, why would you go to wolves and false teachers for truth when there is such a rich tradition of books and writing by Godly men espousing sound, Biblical doctrine?

I forget who said it, but you people remind me of a quote I heard once: "By entertaining of strange persons, men sometimes entertain angels unawares: but by entertaining of strange doctrines, many have entertained devils unaware".

I just cannot, cannot, CANNOT figure out why you people would let wolves in. The sudden left turn Baptists are taking is shocking to me.

 

[glfredrick]

Much more worthy commentary than your earlier dig and shot across the bow. Much more in line with your level of maturity and intellect. Oh and BTW, I have no plans to read it, to many other good things to read.

I held the exact same thought in mind when I made my earlier shot... I had to write it so everyone else could see where I was coming from.

I am not afraid to say that something is trash if it is trash, and I'll be very clear about Bell's book -- it is trash -- and it promulgates some of the same concepts I see argued on this board, particularly by the "no-name" theology folks. Free will carried to some conclusion = Bell's stance = normative liberal Protestantism under a post-modern hipster guise (or under a fundamentalist traditional view, they end up at the same place like James and Paul end up in the same place).

Reasons TO read are there, even if the book is crud.

 

[glfredrick]

Why do we have to study false teachers to be able to point out false teaching? Why shouldn't we be so familiar with the Word of God that when a false teaching pops up, we can immediately refute it from scripture?



How on Earth is that Biblical??? What Bible verse could possibly lead you to believe that we're to study woves and false teachers in order to find edifying teachings?



Ever heard the verse, "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. (that's Philipians 4:8 for you liberals)"

I asked earlier and nobody wanted to answer, but putting aside the fact that your attitude toward wolves and false teachers is Unbiblical, why would you go to wolves and false teachers for truth when there is such a rich tradition of books and writing by Godly men espousing sound, Biblical doctrine?

I forget who said it, but you people remind me of a quote I heard once: "By entertaining of strange persons, men sometimes entertain angels unawares: but by entertaining of strange doctrines, many have entertained devils unaware".

I just cannot, cannot, CANNOT figure out why you people would let wolves in. The sudden left turn Baptists are taking is shocking to me.

JohnDeere... You should leave this board IMMEDIATELY. You are violating one of your strongly held doctrines -- that of not reading things that are not directly from Scripture or not directly edifying!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

JohnDeere... You should leave this board IMMEDIATELY. You are violating one of your strongly held doctrines -- that of not reading things that are not directly from Scripture or not directly edifying!

Actually, I never said that you shouldn't read extra-Biblical things. In fact, my illiterate friend, in the very post you quoted, I specifically said that we have a rich tradition of Christian literature and scholarship and that we should read those things.

But thanks for the snotty personal attack, anyway.

 

[glfredrick]

Actually, I never said that you shouldn't read extra-Biblical things. In fact, my illiterate friend, in the very post you quoted, I specifically said that we have a rich tradition of Christian literature and scholarship and that we should read those things.

But thanks for the snotty personal attack, anyway.

I still contend that this board violates your posted ideals for reading material. There is evidently much false and worthless information here, so by your standards you should not be reading this stuff. I don't want you to suffer harm to your soul, so brother, stop sinning and vacate!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I still contend that this board violates your posted ideals for reading material. There is evidently much false and worthless information here, so by your standards you should not be reading this stuff. I don't want you to suffer harm to your soul, so brother, stop sinning and vacate!

When you were a baby, did your crib have lead paint?

 

[glfredrick]

When you were a baby, did your crib have lead paint?

I'm not really trying to pick a fight. Just making a point that you came off strong above concerning the reading of theology that you consider false and from wolves, and that this board is filled to about 50% with the same.

If you are going to live up to what you post concerning others, one might think it best to live up to it yourself -- or don't come down so hard on those that see things differently. After all, reading is reading, and there certainly is a lot of crud here on the board that equates to the same level that Bell wrote!