MacArthur vs. Platt

[Calminian]

Trump is not a political party.

He's the head of one.

 

[Calminian]

...It also makes a point I have made that Christians in the US have made an idol of politics....

How so? Do you believe it's idolatrous to vote? To run for office? Or to advocate for life? Or for equal justice? Is it idolatrous for David Platt to advocate for Social Justice—a political movement? Is he idolatrous in this stance?

Do you believe Paul was being idolatrous when he appealed to Caesar? Or when he cited Roman law to the jailers?

Please explain your accusation?

 

[JonC]

What does this mean? What exactly did they refuse to do? They never, like Paul, appealed to Caesar? Never advocated for mercy for anyone? This would be crazy and unbiblical. How can you possibly believe this? They knew Paul's opinions about these matters.

If you're merely suggesting they didn't have the political power we've been given, I'd agree. I'd also argue, they would rebuke us for sitting on our hands during a holocaust, with all the means we've been given.

I think your'e confused about this whole issue. You're misunderstanding what the EF meant. Christ did not want the Church to form a nation and run it politically. We're rather to join nations and be good productive citizens. We're to pay taxes customs fear and honor.

"In us, all ardor in the pursuit of glory and honor is dead. So we have no pressing inducement to take part in your public meetings. Nor is there anything more entirely foreign to us than affairs of state."
"All the powers and dignities of this world are only alien to, but are enemies of God. Through them, punishments have been determined against God’s servants. Through them, too, penalties prepared for the impious are ignored." Tertullian

"We are to scorn trying to ingratiate ourselves with kings or any other men – not only if theirfavor is to be won by murderers, licentiousness, or deeds of cruelty – but even if it involves impiety towards God, or any servile expressions of flattery and fawning." Origen

"Celsus also urges us to “take office in the government of the country, if that is required for the maintenance of the laws and the support of religion.” But we recognise in each state the existence of another national organization founded by the Word of God, and we exhort those who are mighty in word and of blameless life to rule over Churches. Those who are ambitious of ruling we reject; but we constrain those who, through excess of modesty, are not easily induced to take a public charge in the Church of God. And those who rule over us well are under the constraining influence of the great King, whom we believe to be the Son of God, God the Word. And if those who govern in the Church, and are called rulers of the divine nation–that is, the Church–rule well, they rule in accordance with the divine commands, and never suffer themselves to be led astray by worldly policy." Origen

“God might have bestowed upon his people both riches and kingdoms, as he had given previously to the Jews, whose successors and posterity we are. However, he would have Christians live under the power and government of others, lest they should become corrupted by the happiness and prosperity, slide into luxury, and eventually despise the commandments of God. For this is what our ancestors did.” – Lactantius

"Christians are not allowed to use violence to correct the delinquencies of sin" Clement of Alexandria

“I owe no duty to forum, campaign, or senate. I stay awake for no public function. I make no effort to occupy a platform. I am no office seeker. I have no desire to smell out political corruption. I shun the voter’s booth, the juryman’s bench. I break no laws and push no lawsuits; I will not serve as a magistrate or judge. I refuse to do military service. I desire to rule over no one – I have withdrawn from worldly politics! Now my only politics is spiritual – how that I might be anxious for nothing except to root out all worldly anxieties and care.” Tertullian

 

[JonC]

He's the head of one.

Only while they allow it. George Bush was the head of it at one time.

 

[AustinC]

How so? Do you believe it's idolatrous to vote? To run for office? Or to advocate for life? Or for equal justice? Is it idolatrous for David Platt to advocate for Social Justice—a political movement? Is he idolatrous in this stance?

Do you believe Paul was being idolatrous when he appealed to Caesar? Or when he cited Roman law to the jailers?

Please explain your accusation?

It is idolatrous for Christians to worship politics as the power that will bring utopia to their lives.

 

[JonC]

Taking in the remainder of the article, Platt is correct in that one party is not morally superior to the other. They are both worldly and secular. They each have moral strengths and weaknesses and each seeks the moral high ground differently. In the end both are godless powers.

 

[Van]

Apparently many posting and professing Christians believe voting with the Democrats does not tarnish their witness for Christ.
The bible teaches it is better to be free than slave. The bible teaches we should not harm those in womb. The bible teaches self reliance. Communism, no matter how often renamed, represents the antithesis of biblical doctrine. So lets censor this truth like big tech and tolerate Jezebel in the name of unity. This seems to miss a fundamental purpose of the church.

 

[JonC]

Apparently many posting and professing Christians believe voting with the Democrats does not tarnish their witness for Christ.
The bible teaches it is better to be free than slave. The bible teaches we should not harm those in womb. The bible teaches self reliance. Communism, no matter how often renamed, represents the antithesis of biblical doctrine. So lets censor this truth like big tech and tolerate Jezebel in the name of unity. This seems to miss a fundamental purpose of the church.

I think you are mistaken (at least from this thread). Obviously voting for either party tarnishes one's witness for Christ.

 

[JonC]

Here is the Platt article.

 

[Calminian]

It is idolatrous for Christians to worship politics as the power that will bring utopia to their lives.

And still no explanation. Just an accusation. Who are you accusing? What example are you giving?

Accusation like this are nothing more than bearing false witness. You're outing yourself.

 

[Calminian]

I think you are mistaken (at least from this thread). Obviously voting for either party tarnishes one's witness for Christ.

Unbiblical. How you got this in your head I'm not sure, but nothing in Scripture backs this up.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree with Platt. His view is exactly the same as the early Church (I am actually surprised, but perhaps shouldn't be as Platt was a foreign missionary).

So with that view, would still have legalized slavery!

 

[Calminian]

Apparently many posting and professing Christians believe voting with the Democrats does not tarnish their witness for Christ.
The bible teaches it is better to be free than slave. The bible teaches we should not harm those in womb. The bible teaches self reliance. Communism, no matter how often renamed, represents the antithesis of biblical doctrine. So lets censor this truth like big tech and tolerate Jezebel in the name of unity. This seems to miss a fundamental purpose of the church.

Amen, and it doesn't stop there. The social justice, guilt and innocence by proxy, is also ingrained in their platform. This is real bigotry and racism. We see it playing out right now in the murder of police officers.

David Platt on co. did something interesting in this false doctrine their putting out. They admit that abortion is murder and wrong and urge churches to speak out on it. But they then isolate it as the only clear cut policy that's wrong. They claim other political policies are not clear cut either way. They may rival abortion they may not. In doing this, they've absolved the abortion voter of any possible judgements, since he may feel that somethings greater than abortion.

Of course this is a lie. You can take the democrat platform from top to bottom and see it's riddled with wickedness.

 

[Calminian]

So with that view, would still have legalized slavery!

You'd, at the very least, see them defending pro-slaver voters.

 

[Yeshua1]

Unbiblical. How you got this in your head I'm not sure, but nothing in Scripture backs this up.

We should be voters and involved in the politgical process as being American citizens!

 

[Yeshua1]

Amen, and it doesn't stop there. The social justice, guilt and innocence by proxy, is also ingrained in their platform. This is real bigotry and racism. We see it playing out right now in the murder of police officers.

David Platt on co. did something interesting is this false doctrine their putting out. They admit that abortion is murder and wrong and urge churches to speak out on it. But they then isolate it as the only clear cut policy that's wrong. They claim other political policies are not clear cut either way. They may rival abortion they may not. In doing this, they've absolved the abortion voter of any possible judgements, since he may feel that somethings greater than abortion.

Of course this is a lie. You can take the democrat platform from top to bottom and see it's riddled with wickedness.

The Dems and Media would love Christians to shut up about politics and morality now in this nation!

 

[Yeshua1]

You'd, at the very least, see them defending pro-slaver voters.

How can Christians support that abomination is beyond me!

 

[Calminian]

We should be voters and involved in the politgical process as being American citizens!

As citizens we have authority in appointing governing authorities. That authority that is normally for monarchs. Paul said all authority is from God. We can only conclude our electoral authority is from God. It's amazing that some here would call this sin.

 

[Yeshua1]

As citizens we have authority in appointing governing authorities. That authority that is normally for monarchs. Paul said all authority is from God. We can only conclude our electoral authority is from God. It's amazing that some here would call this sin.

We can render unto Caesar and also unto God, per Jesus Himself!

 

[Calminian]

I think you are mistaken (at least from this thread). Obviously voting for either party tarnishes one's witness for Christ.

Wrong. Not voting for life tarnishes our witness. Not voting against the racism of the social justice movement tarnishes our witness. Equivocating goodness and wickedness tarnishes our witness. Being weak and neutral in the face of wickedness tarnishes our witness.