MacArthur vs. Platt

[Yeshua1]

Wrong. Not voting for life tarnishes our witness. Not voting against the racism of the social justice movement tarnishes our witness. Equivocating goodness and wickedness tarnishes our witness. Being weak and neutral in the face of wickedness tarnishes our witness.

Ironic that the Founders themselves saw that only Christians would be morally fit to be in government!

 

[Van]

Amen, and it doesn't stop there. The social justice, guilt and innocence by proxy, is also ingrained in their platform. This is real bigotry and racism. We see it playing out right now in the murder of police officers.

David Platt on co. did something interesting in this false doctrine their putting out. They admit that abortion is murder and wrong and urge churches to speak out on it. But they then isolate it as the only clear cut policy that's wrong. They claim other political policies are not clear cut either way. They may rival abortion they may not. In doing this, they've absolved the abortion voter of any possible judgements, since he may feel that somethings greater than abortion.

Of course this is a lie. You can take the democrat platform from top to bottom and see it's riddled with wickedness.

Amen, Sir. Two wrongs do not make a right. As Russel Crowe said, we should always choose the lesser of two weevils.

I am reminded of the Klingon epithet, tokhe straav' which means "willing slave" when someone votes against freedom.

 

[JonC]

Unbiblical. How you got this in your head I'm not sure, but nothing in Scripture backs this up.

Sure there is. Jesus said that we cannot serve two masters. Paul said that he would refrain from acts that make other stumble. But good try.

Wrong. Not voting for life tarnishes our witness. Not voting against the racism of the social justice movement tarnishes our witness. Equivocating goodness and wickedness tarnishes our witness. Being weak and neutral in the face of wickedness tarnishes our witness.

No. "Voting" for life is not casting a vote for the Republican party who will never do anything to prevent abortion as proven by the history of the GOP. It's just a voting point to get suckers to vote for them. People ignore that gains have not been made when the GOP appointed justices were in a majority (as they have been since the 70's), we had a GOP President, a GOP senate, and a GOP house. Were there at least a few executive orders to stay the killing of children? No. Not one.

You put your faith in the GOP. I'll put mine in Christ. You make your voice known by voting for the GOP. I'll make mine know by standing for Christ and life.

The lie that so many have come to believe is that if you put your faith in Christ and have your voice be the church rather than the GOP then you are weak. Perhaps you are right. But God chooses the weak things in the eyes of the world to demonstrate His strength.

 

[JonC]

Ironic that the Founders themselves saw that only Christians would be morally fit to be in government!

Ironic that the Early Church Fathers and the Early Church did not. They, of course, belonged to the Church with One Founder (Christ) who did not Himself address abortion in the Roman Empire (the law did not consider unborn children to be persons, and they could be aborted without consequence - the Law considered the unborn as property and restitution was required should a child be lost due to the action of another).

As far as your Founders, you are right. John Calvin did view the State as an arm of the Church. But he is not the Founder of my faith.

 

[AustinC]

And still no explanation. Just an accusation. Who are you accusing? What example are you giving?

Accusation like this are nothing more than bearing false witness. You're outing yourself.

You sound like the temple leaders in the day of Jeremiah who despised him when he pointed out their idol worship in the temple.
I have expressed how Christians worship their political gods. You can deny it all you want if you wish.

 

[AustinC]

The Dems and Media would love Christians to shut up about politics and morality now in this nation!

God would love for His children to love their neighbors as they love themselves.
God would love for us exiles to pray for the peace of the city in which we live.
God would love for Christians to see their citizenship as being in the Kingdom of Heaven rather than seeing their citizenship as an earthly thing.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure there is. Jesus said that we cannot serve two masters. Paul said that he would refrain from acts that make other stumble. But good try.
No. "Voting" for life is not casting a vote for the Republican party who will never do anything to prevent abortion as proven by the history of the GOP. It's just a voting point to get suckers to vote for them. People ignore that gains have not been made when the GOP appointed justices were in a majority (as they have been since the 70's), we had a GOP President, a GOP senate, and a GOP house. Were there at least a few executive orders to stay the killing of children? No. Not one.

You put your faith in the GOP. I'll put mine in Christ. You make your voice known by voting for the GOP. I'll make mine know by standing for Christ and life.

The lie that so many have come to believe is that if you put your faith in Christ and have your voice be the church rather than the GOP then you are weak. Perhaps you are right. But God chooses the weak things in the eyes of the world to demonstrate His strength.

One can be a Christian and still be part of the political process, as should vote, as they is a right granted to us!

 

[Yeshua1]

Ironic that the Early Church Fathers and the Early Church did not. They, of course, belonged to the Church with One Founder (Christ) who did not Himself address abortion in the Roman Empire (the law did not consider unborn children to be persons, and they could be aborted without consequence - the Law considered the unborn as property and restitution was required should a child be lost due to the action of another).

As far as your Founders, you are right. John Calvin did view the State as an arm of the Church. But he is not the Founder of my faith.

Talking about our Founding fathers, and Paul certainly did many times appeal and use his Roman rights as a citizen to further cause of Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

You sound like the temple leaders in the day of Jeremiah who despised him when he pointed out their idol worship in the temple.
I have expressed how Christians worship their political gods. You can deny it all you want if you wish.

Voting is not worshiping false gods!

 

[Yeshua1]

God would love for His children to love their neighbors as they love themselves.
God would love for us exiles to pray for the peace of the city in which we live.
God would love for Christians to see their citizenship as being in the Kingdom of Heaven rather than seeing their citizenship as an earthly thing.

Did the Lord use political means to hasten demise of Slavery?

 

[JonC]

One can be a Christian and still be part of the political process, as should vote, as they is a right granted to us!

I never said that we could not be a Christian and vote. I voted quite a bit as a Christian. And I never said that our government has not granted that right to us.

BUT you indicated that the early church believed Christians should be in public office. That is simply a false statement. I am interested in knowing what resource you use and who you quote. Celsus did make that claim (that if Christians were virtuous then they should serve in government and vote). But Celsus was a critic of Christianity and not an advocate. His point was that Christianity detracts from society because the Church refused even to vote (Romans had the right to vote).

 

[JonC]

Here's something for you guys to complain about -

Politics is the greatest idol in America today. It is the alter upon which Christians sacrifice their character, their morality, and their witness.

If anyone had any doubt about the validity of this statement he need to go no farther than this thread to see it proven.

 

[Yeshua1]

I never said that we could not be a Christian and vote. I voted quite a bit as a Christian. And I never said that our government has not granted that right to us.

BUT you indicated that the early church believed Christians should be in public office. That is simply a false statement. I am interested in knowing what resource you use and who you quote. Celsus did make that claim (that if Christians were virtuous then they should serve in government and vote). But Celsus was a critic of Christianity and not an advocate. His point was that Christianity detracts from society because the Church refused even to vote (Romans had the right to vote).

No, I stated that our Founding fathers viewed that best to have Christians as political leaders

 

[AustinC]

Voting is not worshiping false gods!

This is true.

However, scouring the internet for right-wing articles, looking for any hope that Donald Trump can remain President, crying out that only people who vote Republican can be Christians; these are all indications of idol worship. When God becomes secondary to politics, you have set up another god as an idol in your house.

Go vote. Hopefully you all voted for Ben Sasse to be President. [emoji848]

Go to a caucus and share your plank with the political party of your choice. Go to school board meetings and city council meetings and be a light in the darkness. Just don't imagine that you control the events that God ordains to come to pass. Trust God and hold things lightly.

 

[JonC]

No, I stated that our Founding fathers viewed that best to have Christians as political leaders

If you mean of the United States, then yes - some did. Others did not but they believed we needed Christian values. Some were Deists. Jefferson did not believe that Christ rose from the dead (he certainly could not have been a Christian while denying the Resurrection). But he did believe the moral lessons of Christianity were good lessons.

That said, they were also wrong. God never gave man the right to happiness or liberty. God never gave men the right to life. These rights are not, as the Founding Father's believed, God given but what they wanted to be provided for by the government.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is true.

However, scouring the internet for right-wing articles, looking for any hope that Donald Trump can remain President, crying out that only people who vote Republican can be Christians; these are all indications of idol worship. When God becomes secondary to politics, you have set up another god as an idol in your house.

Go vote. Hopefully you all voted for Ben Sasse to be President. [emoji848]

Go to a caucus and share your plank with the political party of your choice. Go to school board meetings and city council meetings and be a light in the darkness. Just don't imagine that you control the events that God ordains to come to pass. Trust God and hold things lightly.

I agree with the gist of your statement here, but still have a hard time seeing how to vote for someone whose policy is death!

 

[Yeshua1]

If you mean of the United States, then yes - some did. Others did not but they believed we needed Christian values. Some were Deists. Jefferson did not believe that Christ rose from the dead (he certainly could not have been a Christian while denying the Resurrection). But he did believe the moral lessons of Christianity were good lessons.

That said, they were also wrong. God never gave man the right to happiness or liberty. God never gave men the right to life. These rights are not, as the Founding Father's believed, God given but what they wanted to be provided for by the government.

God granted the right of live and He desired freedom and Liberty for all

 

[JonC]

God granted the right of live and He desired freedom and Liberty for all

Yes, in Christ who frees and liberates us from the bondage of sin and death.

Are you suggesting that our founding fathers believed that the United States would liberate us from sin?????

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, in Christ who frees and liberates us from the bondage of sin and death.

Are you suggesting that our founding fathers believed that the United States would liberate us from sin?????

no, rather that they saw all humans being made in image of God had certain rights granted to them by their Creator

 

[JonC]

no, rather that they saw all humans being made in image of God had certain rights granted to them by their Creator

Do you have a passage that says God has given man the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

If so, please enlighten us and share the verse.

Thank you.