Make believe Eschatology

[robycop3]

You continue to ignore what has been presented to you it wasn't a physical 2nd coming of Jesus to the Earth in Matthew 24 It was rather a coming in judgment

Jesus hasn't been back yet, except Spiritually, whenever/wherever two or more are gathered in His name.

 

[asterisktom]

I understand it is a propphecy that after the Messiah had died, the rebuilt Temple will be destoryed. And that distruction of the rebuilt temple did happend in 70AD as an evidence that the Messiah had actually alread came. And we know Him to be our Lord Jesus Christ.

Attempts have been made to use it to the calculate the year of the crucifixion. But none of those proposed calculations that I have seen or done give 30AD as the year.

I am not sure if I posted this here or not. It would have been several years ago. I did a series of articles on the 70 Weeks that begins at the proper date IMV of 454 BC and referenced to Nehemiah 2:1.
Old Greek History & Daniel’s Seventy Weeks

 

[Iconoclast]

Huh? The sacrifice continued for another 40 years after Christ was “cut off.”

The end of sin was not realized in 70 AD. Nor was everlasting righteousness established in 70AD

Jesus sacrifice on the cross made an end of all the atonements for sin and he brought in everlasting righteousness at the cross

 

[Iconoclast]

I’ve read Matthew 24 many times.

When the angel told the disciples Jesus would return as they saw Him leave ... that’s a physical presence.

1 Thess 4:16-17 is very clear this is a physical event.

The earth being split with Jesus’ landing on the Mt of Olives prior to entering the Temple (3rd Temple) ... is a physical event ...

Every bit as much as Jesus’ fulfilling prophesy about entering Jerusalem on a donkey over a bunch of palm leaves ... e.g. Palm Sunday.

Judgement Day is coming and it’s not a Sarah Conner Terminator deal ... though I can CERTAINLY see a nuclear exchange as part of the devastation.

The rapture happens on the last day jn6:37-44....I will raise them up on the last day...repeated 3x

 

[Two Wings]

Jesus sacrifice on the cross made an end of all the atonements for sin and he brought in everlasting righteousness at the cross

But that’s not what Daniel 9:24 says...

finish the transgression and make an end to sin.

I totally understand Jesus make the atonement for sin ... past, present, future. If future, that means 30 AD didn’t end the transgression, but DID hold the Provision for being cleansed.

also says seals the vision and the prophesy.

If Jesus is Returning, physically, and that hasn’t happened yet, then the prophesy is not yet sealed ...

Besides ... the prophesy also includes the revelation of the antichrist ... the breaking of the confirmed covenant 1/2 way into it ...

Has that happened too?

It’s fascinating to me there’s such a radical doctrine out there which suggests all this has already happened ... and therefore Jesus is just late ... or this is Heaven now ... or whatever.

With all that has happened in the last couple of years, I’m QUITE sure this isn’t the post rapture reign.

 

[Two Wings]

The rapture happens on the last day jn6:37-44....I will raise them up on the last day...repeated 3x

I agree ... then how does the last 1900 plus years happen?

The tares are taken first ... where have they been held these 1900 years?

The removal of the restrainer ... how has that happened if the prophesy is fulfilled?

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree ... then how does the last 1900 plus years happen?

The tares are taken first ... where have they been held these 1900 years?

The removal of the restrainer ... how has that happened if the prophesy is fulfilled?

The tares are taken in judgment just as in the day of Noah. mt.2439
In the passage and Luke it says they knew not until the flood came and took them all the way the ones that were taken were taken in judgment not in a rapture

 

[Two Wings]

The tares are taken in judgment just as in the day of Noah. mt.2439
In the passage and Luke it says they knew not until the flood came and took them all the way the ones that were taken were taken in judgment not in a rapture

I agree.
So given the rapture hasn’t ocurred yet … and the parable clearly indicates a short amount of time between gathering the tares and harvesting the wheat … (same day) …

I understand THAT DAY of Dan 9:24 has yet to dawn.

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree.
So given the rapture hasn’t ocurred yet … and the parable clearly indicates a short amount of time between gathering the tares and harvesting the wheat … (same day) …

I understand THAT DAY of Dan 9:24 has yet to dawn.

TW,
Many of us were taught those things you hold.
Then you learn others have seen a better way.

 

[37818]

Pre-tribulation is true for the church.
Mid-tribulation is true for the tribulation saints.
There is more than 1 rapture.

Do you know why I am persuaded there is only the post trib rapture?

 

[37818]

You continue to ignore what has been presented to you it wasn't a physical 2nd coming of Jesus to the Earth in Matthew 24 It was rather a coming in judgment

You actually believe ". . . they shall see . . . ." is not really real.

 

[37818]

. . . of 454 BC and referenced to Nehemiah 2:1.

". . . And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, . . ."

How is that realated? Typically 465BC is used plus 20 years to get the year 445BC.

 

[asterisktom]

". . . And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, . . ."

How is that related? Typically 465BC is used plus 20 years to get the year 445BC.

The answer to your question,which was previously given to me when I wrote the article, prompted me to do a follow-up. The date you cite is, I believe, erroneous. Here is the article:
History of an Error

 

[37818]

The answer to your question,which was previously given to me when I wrote the article, prompted me to do a follow-up. The date you cite is, I believe, erroneous. Here is the article:
History of an Error

While you may very will be correct. The problem is there not being enough information provided.

 

[Iconoclast]

You actually believe ". . . they shall see . . . ." is not really real.

I believe they did see what Jesus said they would see.
Jerusalem surrounded by armies ,the abomination of desolation,the temple destroyed not one stone left upon another,the sign of the Son of man in Heaven,The coming in the clouds in judgment against apostate Jerusalem.

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, sorry, if I had given the correct reference ... Daniel 9:24

“....
to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy
place”

If this doesn’t describe The Lord’s Day ... or The Day of The Lord ...

So according to these preterists (?) ... this 6-descriptor event happened with the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 AD? So there’s no more sin post 70AD?

Everlasting righteousness was ushered-in with this 70 AD event?

The visions/prophesy is sealed-up??? ... and the holy place anointed?

What does it describe? Jesus’ Second Coming is prophesied, yes?

Then clearly this preterists view is flawed at its core ...and hence I do not understand how anyone who calls themselves a baptist can hold this view.

Again, I apologize for my citation error.

Jesus does this,not the antichrist.

 

[Lodic]

The sensationalism of dispensationalism!

Phony as a Ford Corvette but very addictive to the carnal mind.

I couldn't have said it better, Brother.

 

[Lodic]

Really? Then Jesus' second appearing as proclaimed is in the past too. What we have then is full perterism.

Full preterism views Jesus having literally come in AD 70. Partial preterism views this to be a "coming in judgment" in the same way that God "came in judgment" many times in the Old Testament.

". . . the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven . . . ." In our translation, in plain English, "they shall see."

I must disagree, Brother. It's the same in Revelation 1:7. While one translation is to literally see with our eyes, this also carries the idea of understanding, just as it does in our day. But to be sure, they saw judgment come upon Jerusalem.

 

[Lodic]

I'm looking for a literal fulfillment because it IS literal. Jesus did NOT switch back-n-forth between literal & symbolic in the Olivet Discourse. He answered the disciples' questions literally, as they were asking about literal events he'd just prophesied. Has there been literal war, pestilences, earthquakes. etc. or not?

How do you know He didn't switch between literal and symbolic language? Especially since Jesus was quoting a passage from Daniel that had symbolic meaning. You are stuck on the notion that this is about future worldwide events, so you will never see their fulfillment. I maintain these were fulfilled between AD 66-70. Obviously, since we hold such different views of eschatology, we will just keep repeating our same points over and over.

 

[Lodic]

But that’s not what Daniel 9:24 says...

finish the transgression and make an end to sin.

I totally understand Jesus make the atonement for sin ... past, present, future. If future, that means 30 AD didn’t end the transgression, but DID hold the Provision for being cleansed.

also says seals the vision and the prophesy

If Jesus is Returning, physically, and that hasn’t happened yet, then the prophesy is not yet sealed ...

Besides ... the prophesy also includes the revelation of the antichrist ... the breaking of the confirmed covenant 1/2 way into it ...

Has that happened too?

It’s fascinating to me there’s such a radical doctrine out there which suggests all this has already happened ... and therefore Jesus is just late ... or this is Heaven now ... or whatever.

With all that has happened in the last couple of years, I’m QUITE sure this isn’t the post rapture reign.

Have you ever noticed that Daniel is told to seal up the vision and the prophecy (because it was a long way off), but in Revelation 22:10, John was told not to seal up the words of the prophecy - because the time is near. There is plenty of evidence that Revelation was probably written in the mid to late 60s, not the mid 90s. If this is true (as I believe it is), this clearly points to the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem.

The "firm covenant" of Daniel 9:27 was made at the Last Supper. The "prince" of verse 26 was the Roman general Titus, who led the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Incidentally, "antichrist" only appears 4 times (3 in 1 John and 1 in 2 John). This is a description, not a person nor a system. The covenant was broken at the Crucifixion. Anyway, that was my two cents worth.