Make believe Eschatology

[Two Wings]

Have you ever noticed that Daniel is told to seal up the vision and the prophecy (because it was a long way off), but in Revelation 22:10, John was told not to seal up the words of the prophecy - because the time is near. There is plenty of evidence that Revelation was probably written in the mid to late 60s, not the mid 90s. If this is true (as I believe it is), this clearly points to the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem.

The "firm covenant" of Daniel 9:27 was made at the Last Supper. The "prince" of verse 26 was the Roman general Titus, who led the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Incidentally, "antichrist" only appears 4 times (3 in 1 John and 1 in 2 John). This is a description, not a person nor a system. The covenant was broken at the Crucifixion. Anyway, that was my two cents worth.

that's interesting ... then what person is described by daniel when he says antichrist will be "taller than his associates" and "be from the people who crucified Messiah?" (Rome or Judea)

Moreover ... Zechariah has a physical description of "The Worthless Shepherd" .... now who is THAT if it's not antichrist? Not some allegory ... some idea ... an actual PERSON ...

who has a "bum" arm ... and is blind in his right eye.

Yes ... Daniel's prophesy was to be sealed-up and understanding given ... in the end. Was the end 70 AD?

I've never heard Daniel 9:27 being fulfilled at the last supper. The one who confirms the covenant with many isn't Jesus ... it's antichrist for he reneges at the 1/2 way point.

many false prophets in the end times. I think chasing these is fulfilling that prophesy.

Because ... if The End was 70AD ... then who are we, what are we doing, what is our purpose? The doctrine of immanence for Jesus' Return is precisely counter to every other appointment God made with His people ... and TOLD THEM in advance. (Noah, Moses, Jeremiah)

Jesus said He'd told us "all things in advance." was the advance merely 40 years? Or is it possible the scope given to Daniel covered the last 1/3 of man's dominion over the planet since he wasn't gonna understand it because events had yet to happen to REVEAL that understanding.

I still find it incredible a nation which hadn't existed in 1900 years is being disregarded for some understanding that 70AD fulfilled all prophesy ... and we have to accept Revelation was written in the 60s to make that "work." And that it wasn't just any nation ... it's the nation of the Jews! Aliyah is in progress like it's never been before and the expectation of discovering the lost tribes of the North is being bantered for the first time ... ever.

I appreciate your post, Lodic ... but I cannot accept what's in it.

 

[Two Wings]

Jesus does this,not the antichrist.

that's right!


Where did I indicate antichrist fulfills Daniel 9:24?

but it's antichrist in Daniel 9:27 ... Jesus' redemptive work was done at the end of the week, not the middle. Finishing that week.

 

[Two Wings]

... and what about the Two Witnesses?

If 70AD sealed-up the prophesy, what about these guys? Did we miss them, too?

Did we miss the 3 angels of Rev 14? The Gospel has already been preached to all? Babylon fell before 70AD ... The mark of the beast has already been identified and warning given???

The tares are being suspended in "animation" as they were clearly taken first ... but evil continued ... ??? ...

1/3 of the world's population perished in an hour between 30 and 70 AD?

 

[kyredneck]

I am not sure if I posted this here or not. It would have been several years ago.

[here]

 

[Iconoclast]

Isa.19;
The burden of Egypt.
Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt:and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at His presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
Verses 2 -25, then describe a series of judgments that happen on earth.

The language of the Lord riding on a swift cloud preceded the judgment.

Same in Mt 24.
.

 

[37818]

I believe they did see what Jesus said they would see.
Jerusalem surrounded by armies ,the abomination of desolation,the temple destroyed not one stone left upon another,the sign of the Son of man in Heaven,The coming in the clouds in judgment against apostate Jerusalem.

One of the problems. Jesus only spoke of the Temple distruction in Matthew 24 only in Matthew 24:1-2. Can you prove otherwise?

 

[37818]

Full preterism views Jesus having literally come in AD 70. Partial preterism views this to be a "coming in judgment" in the same way that God "came in judgment" many times in the Old Testament.


I must disagree, Brother. It's the same in Revelation 1:7. While one translation is to literally see with our eyes, this also carries the idea of understanding, just as it does in our day. But to be sure, they saw judgment come upon Jerusalem.

Do you not undersand that I also take Revelation 1:7 literally and as yet future? Matthew 24:27, ". . . For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. . . ." Even though the lost dead are not risen then, Jesus will appear even to them. I have not any reason to understand Matthew 24:29-31 in the way any Preterist view holds.

 

[37818]

Regarding Matthew 24:29-30, ". . . the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven . . . ."
How does the full Perterist and the orthodox partial Perterist understand this differently?

 

[Iconoclast]

The

One of the problems. Jesus only spoke of the Temple distruction in Matthew 24 only in Matthew 24:1-2. Can you prove otherwise?

The destruction of the temple, and the end of the age.
I started a thread that has 19 endtimes links, and present a view that you should listen to, then consider.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sun, moon, stars.....change of administration, government....
The old covenant being removed.

 

[robycop3]

How do you know He didn't switch between literal and symbolic language? Especially since Jesus was quoting a passage from Daniel that had symbolic meaning. You are stuck on the notion that this is about future worldwide events, so you will never see their fulfillment. I maintain these were fulfilled between AD 66-70. Obviously, since we hold such different views of eschatology, we will just keep repeating our same points over and over.

Yes, until you admit your view is incorrect. You have no historical support proving the fulfillment of those events, so you reduce them to "figurative/symbolic" status. Sorry; that doesn't work in the real world.

 

[kyredneck]

Matthew 24:27, ". . . For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. . . .

Your application is all wrong, and typical of the sensationalist rendering 'you people' are addicted to. Just as lightning lights up the entire sky from the east to the west, so shall the of the Son of man be in his day, His PRESENCE will be EVERYWHERE. And it won't be visible to the eye [Luke 17:20-21], we have not come to a mount that might be touched [Hebrews 12:18].

26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming [PRESENCE] of the Son of man.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, Lo, there! Lo, here! go not away, nor follow after them:
24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

But thanks be unto God, who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place. 2 Cor 2:14

For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. Hab 2:14

And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God: and they shall abide; for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. Micah 5:4

 

[37818]

The

The destruction of the temple, and the end of the age.
I started a thread that has 19 endtimes links, and present a view that you should listen to, then consider.

The mere fact that you cannot give a simple answer. Because there no simple answer. The simple truth is Jesus only addresses in Matthew 24 the distruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2, that is a tenant that has often been denied but never disproven, because there is no disproof.

 

[kyredneck]

The simple truth is Jesus only addresses in Matthew 24 the distruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2,

So? What?

 

[tyndale1946]

I got tired listening to the Robyism as Phony as a Ford Corvette... Really?... So I found one!... Time to adopt a new saying Roby... Its amazing what you can find on the internet, if you just look... I believe what they advertise, a Ford Corvette... Brother Glen

 

[Iconoclast]

The mere fact that you cannot give a simple answer. Because there no simple answer. The simple truth is Jesus only addresses in Matthew 24 the distruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2, that is a tenant that has often been denied but never disproven, because there is no disproof.

One of the problems. Jesus only spoke of the Temple distruction in Matthew 24 only in Matthew 24:1-2. Can you prove otherwise?

If you want to really see answers to the questions you're asking you got to take a look at the links I posted on the other thread. Now you might not agree with what's being stated but I think it's important if you going to study it to hear from the other people what they teach on the verses then you're in better position to determine if you agree or disagree .
Just to disagree and and complain and make charges of apostasy and everything else doesn't really aid you in your study

 

[Iconoclast]

A simple answer is.
Apostate Jerusalem was destroyed and replaced by the Heavenly Jerusalem.
The Great Commision is all that is left before the final Judgments

 

[Revmitchell]

Normally deferent eschatological views are regarded on an equal basis.

The nature truth only one view can be true or all the views can be false either on the whole or in some parts.

Preterist views are all make believe.
Have you come to an orthodox Preterist view. The orthodoxy is what is not the make believe.

full or partial both are the dumbest of all views. The next thing is the gap theory

 

[37818]

The Great Commision is all that is left before the final Judgments

Well, from a Pre-Millennial point of view it is before the Judgement, Revelation 20:1-15.

 

[Iconoclast]

The mere fact that you cannot give a simple answer. Because there no simple answer. The simple truth is Jesus only addresses in Matthew 24 the distruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2, that is a tenant that has often been denied but never disproven, because there is no disproof.

Mt.24:3 shows your statement is not correct.....the temple, the end of the age.