Man-kind never set foot on the planetary body known as the 'moon', acc to Bible (KJB), Hist. & Sci.

[JonC]

There is a difference between "I don't know what 'you' are talking about", and "I don't know what 'I' am talking about."

I personally think it is just a matter of difference in what we are speaking about in matters location, intensity, etc. In other words, talking past one another.

I cited my sources and provided the sampling data, and suit materials and the location of the measured rates (ie, Val Allen, LEO, etc in the upper atmosphere (where 'air' is extremely 'thin', or in the 'vacuum' (a strange word since it is filled with all kinds of things, electrically charged particles, etc) of 'space'). When you speak of 'samples' you didn't provide the data of those examples of 'alpha' (etc) (what was their intensity, kinetic energy in MeV. You are most likely referring to (I assume here) standard earth atmosphere or basic 'air' environment between sea level and a few miles up, since you stated you are a RadCon inspector (where specifically please) and for what materials/locations?

We could be talking past one another.

Radiation is essentially radiation. The materials may act differently within our atmosphere (alpha, for example, can be blocked by an inch of so of air....but what about in space).

And there is a difference between radioactive contamination and radioactibity (and radiation, for that matter).

I'll PM you. I am not comfortable sharing too much personal info on the open forum (even though we have disagreements I do not think you untrustworthy).

 

[JonC]

What in the world does that have to do with the OP and subsequent posts by myself?

Nothing. I noticed it in your link but it was not defined well (just a note that beta could interact with lead in an undesirable way).

 

[JonC]

Again, read the OP and subsequent posts. I am not speaking about "here on earth". I gave specific locations, LEO (high upper atmosphere), Van Allen belts, and beyond. Let's not confuse the two things as if they are the same thing, or have the same effects. Did you read the last link I provided?

Yes. We can subtract the natural exposure we get on earth from the exposure (50-2000 mSv) in space (for a 6 month stay....so it'd be half the 620 subtracted).

Also, that 50 to 2000 mSv was for 6 months. The lunar landing was less than a day (you are looking at .3 to 11 mSv exposure in the suits).

 

[Alofa Atu]

ALPHA – can be stopped after traveling through about 1.2 inches of air

Define 'air' (I can guarantee that you are going to refer to something that is of standard sea level +-, "...
The sea level standard value of air density r is r = 1.229 kilograms/cubic meters = .00237 slug/cubic feet ..." - https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/airprop.html but that is not what it is at LEO (above or below it)). Then measure that definition to what is considered 'air' in LEO, then measure that against what is assumed to exist in Val Allen belt 'space' and then what is assumed beyond.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Nothing. ...

Then stop obfuscating and red herring. Just posting information does nothing to help the conversation.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...The lunar landing was less than a day (you are looking at .3 to 11 mSv exposure in the suits).

Read the link (I already provided) : Apollo Investigation, Spaceflight. Orion, the Van Allen Belts and Space Radiation Challenges by Mary Bennett. AULIS Online – Different Thinking I even gave a video just before it.

One 'astronot' (Apollo 'missings', video already provided) went so far as to say that he did not know whether he went through the Van Allen belts! What?

 

[Alofa Atu]

I'll PM you. I am not comfortable sharing too much personal info on the open forum (even though we have disagreements I do not think you untrustworthy).

Good deal. Thank you. I'll keep it that way (private).

 

[JonC]

Define 'air' (I can guarantee that you are going to refer to something that is of standard sea level +-, "...
The sea level standard value of air density r is r = 1.229 kilograms/cubic meters = .00237 slug/cubic feet ..." - https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/airprop.html but that is not what it is at LEO (above or below it)). Then measure that definition to what is considered 'air' in LEO, then measure that against what is assumed to exist in Val Allen belt 'space' and then what is assumed beyond.

For us, air is just air (sea level has no discernable effect). I am just guessing that alpha could travel further in space (I don't know it does). But I can definitely say a sheet of paper will stop alpha (as will a layer of dead skin). But you definitely would not want the stuff on you....or in a cut.

 

[JonC]

Then stop obfuscating and red herring. Just posting information does nothing to help the conversation.

But you posted it first (you did not omit it, so I addressed it)

 

[Alofa Atu]

OK JonC, here's what I would like to do. Let me give you, for the sake of consideration, all that you presented as 'given as fact and accepted without disagreement'.

Let's assume for a moment that all that you provided about radiation is without question, true and factual and that such was the case for lunar missions That radiation was not an issue (at least not life threatening or in any way seriously injuring of physical wellbeing).

What do you personally think of the other 'evidences' (like, photography, discrepancies in audio timing, technology, NASA providing the only source of information, comments of the personnel of the lunar missions, their actions to specific questions, the distance of time between then and now (ie no further missions ever came afterwards, and the Russians, Chinese, etc never landed a man on the lunar surface, why not?,m etc)) of lunar mission fakery?

 

[Alofa Atu]

For us, air is just air (sea level has no discernable effect). I am just guessing that alpha could travel further in space (I don't know it does). But I can definitely say a sheet of paper will stop alpha (as will a layer of dead skin). But you definitely would not want the stuff on you....or in a cut.

Ok, what about density of 'air' (which is what I am trying to get at). Wouldn't the density of the 'air' be a factor in the distance that alpha particles (say at same original MeV) can 'travel' before complete decay by collision?

 

[Alofa Atu]

...(just a note that beta could interact with lead in an undesirable way).

I do not disagree with that at all.

As a PS I think we lost our readers a while back. (maybe not all of them)

 

[JonC]

Ok, what about density of 'air' (which is what I am trying to get at). Wouldn't the density of the 'air' be a factor in the distance that alpha particles (say at same original MeV) can 'travel' before complete decay by collision?

The alpha particle does not decay by collision. It picks up electrons and becomes helium. The danger is not what happens to the alpha particle itself but the ionization of the atoms it encounters.

Alpha particles themselves are not an internal hazard as they cannot enter the body except through inhalation, injection, or injection (like a cut or wound) and here we are speaking of materials that decay via alpha radiation. Once inside the body alpha is probably the most dangerous as they will release their energy in a few cells (as opposed to gamma, most of which will pass through the body). Alpha is high LET (linear energy transfer).

In space, basically alpha radiation would not really matter. But that can't be said for gamma and x-ray (essentially the same thing...originates at different places).

 

[Alofa Atu]

The alpha particle does not decay by collision. It picks up electrons and becomes helium. The danger is not what happens to the alpha particle itself but the ionization of the atoms it encounters.

Again I think it is a matter of how I am speaking to you. Yes, the alpha particle collides with whatever ('air', or 'paper', etc. The atoms that exist within those things can be hit or nearly hit ('soft collision', in passing, thus exchange Kinetic energy and possibly a few eV).

It was originally an 'alpha particle' at so many MeV, that when it 'strikes' the obstruction (cm's of 'air' or 'paper' (I assume you are referring to standard A4 density and thickness?) in it's travel path, then can take on two more electrons becoming a Helium atom. Yet, I consider that a 'decay', because it is no longer a mere alpha particle that it once was, but went from one stage to another in an exchange in both loss of Ev and gain of electrons. It came about through addition of electrons, but also loss of Ev, so that is how I am using the word 'decay'. I am not using the word decay in the manner of say an unstable isotope, that simply 'sheds' particles going from a radioactive state to a stable isotope (like Lead, etc).

 

[Alofa Atu]

If anything, I think we are giving our readers a bit to think about in particle physics and radiometry. Forgive me where I am too hard, or perhaps not understanding you correctly. Where I am in error, I hope I can accept that and learn. So, what I have read in matter of 'paper', it seems I need to read a bit more in that area, for the sources I read required a thicker or more dense obstruction (half inch to one inch thickness), rather than a single sheet. I guess I would have to know the reason for the differences.

Can you tell me at what threshold would a single sheet (A4, standard) not block alpha particles? I know that it only deals with individual particles so, from what I know it is not so much quantity of the alpha as the intensity of the MeV, or am I missing something?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Statistically speaking:

"... Just under half of Russians think the U.S. moon landing in 1969 was a government hoax, a poll has found. In a survey of 1,600 adults in Russia, researchers also found only 31 percent believe American astronauts landed on the moon in the last century. ..." - U.S. moon landing was a hoax, half of Russians believe​

The Russians got their own 'thing' (fakery) going besides the US.

"... 1 in 10 Americans Don't Believe the Moon Landing Really Happened ..." - 1 in 10 Americans Don't Believe the Moon Landing Really Happened

"... The United States had an official resident population of 331,449,281 on April 1, 2020, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. ..." - Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia

"Aug 01, 2021 08:44 UTC (+7) ... 332,579,330 (as of this citation) ..." - Population Clock​

Thus 1 out of 10 = 33,257,933 people just in the United States alone.

 

[JonC]

Again I think it is a matter of how I am speaking to you. Yes, the alpha particle collides with whatever ('air', or 'paper', etc. The atoms that exist within those things can be hit or nearly hit ('soft collision', in passing, thus exchange Kinetic energy and possibly a few eV).

It was originally an 'alpha particle' at so many MeV, that when it 'strikes' the obstruction (cm's of 'air' or 'paper' (I assume you are referring to standard A4 density and thickness?) in it's travel path, then can take on two more electrons becoming a Helium atom. Yet, I consider that a 'decay', because it is no longer a mere alpha particle that it once was, but went from one stage to another in an exchange in both loss of Ev and gain of electrons. It came about through addition of electrons, but also loss of Ev, so that is how I am using the word 'decay'. I am not using the word decay in the manner of say an unstable isotope, that simply 'sheds' particles going from a radioactive state to a stable isotope (like Lead, etc).

Interesting. I do not know how different resistances of air would affect the particles. There is also additional energy (kenitic energy, neutrinos) associated with decaying atoms.

We do have to keep in mind that alpha particles are not radioactive materials (they are the radiation).

With pair-production (a gamma reaction) photons become matter. But the excess energy (above the 1022 kev that becomes matter) has to still be there in the form of kinetic energy. So you have a negation and a proton created from the energy, but behind these particles the kinetic energy has to equal the excess energy (what was not transformed into matter). But the particles themselves do not lose energy (mass) until they encounter an anti-matter particles and transform to photons (511 kev).

So with an alpha particle, the particles itself cannot lose energy (energy=mass). But there is the kinetic energy associated with the atom giving off the alpha particle. The alpha particle can only gain electrons.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[robycop3]

The definition you provided shows where the bias lies and why you did not "hear" about the fakery.

As a corpsman, I didn't spend my whole hitch taking care of battle casualties. Away from combat zones, I took care of "social diseases", & other ailments/injuries common to mankind. Some of the brass trusted me with secrets of their private lives, including one confiding to me that he was gay. Had there been fakery, most of them would've been privy to that intel, and someone would've told me, as I remarked about the landing often, to make small talk while I performed a procedure.

Funny; the Russians took photos of what the Americans had left on the moon, and I doubt they'd've been a party to American fakery. On the contrary, had they found any, they would've EXPOSED it to the world.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Moon Landings Faked? Filmmaker Says Not!

...

Have you seen Jarrah White's responses yet? Please remember, I watched yours, and am ready to discuss it when you are.

 

[Alofa Atu]

... Some of the brass trusted me with secrets of their private lives, including one confiding to me that he was gay. ...

This! ... this is ... this is just soooo hilarious.

Yes, just because you had someone secretly tell you that they were a homosexual, means you had the 'inside clearance' into top secret intel, like 'Operation Paperclip' (some of which is still classified), 'Operation Northwoods', 'Monarch', 'MK-Ultra', "Project Bluebird', 'Project Artichoke', 'Mockingbird', etc.

If you are able to still take care of 'battle casualties', I need your assistance, as my side is terribly splitting from laughter. Help Doc - MEDIC! I need a gurney, I need to lie down and rest from this acute case of the guffaws and giggles. Fresh air ... that's what I need. Yes. Some fresh air.