Man's Ability to Repent

[nate1989]

Baptized as an Adult, Id just like all my sins of the past to be cleansed and i just wanna start over God has helped me threw addiction and ive been caught up in Lust for so long still working on that its very tough and ive just felt the wieght of my own sin i repented and just felt like it was lifted from off my shoulders i asked for Jesus to set up camp in my heart and the Father to give me knowledge so that I may know him and i havent been to church in a while i wanna get plugged back in i do bible studys everyday and it seems like when he gave me a new heart one positioned to know him its like my hunger was his Word and I wanna be able to put hands on the sick and threw his stripes they will be healed i just wanna give it all and never look back because Jesus has done so much for me but its hard when i get tempted everyday by smoking and drinking and lust if u guys could pray for me it would be kind and appreciated

 

[nate1989]

And thanks don for your reply

 

[PreachTony]

Baptized as an Adult, Id just like all my sins of the past to be cleansed and i just wanna start over God has helped me threw addiction and ive been caught up in Lust for so long still working on that its very tough and ive just felt the wieght of my own sin i repented and just felt like it was lifted from off my shoulders i asked for Jesus to set up camp in my heart and the Father to give me knowledge so that I may know him and i havent been to church in a while i wanna get plugged back in i do bible studys everyday and it seems like when he gave me a new heart one positioned to know him its like my hunger was his Word and I wanna be able to put hands on the sick and threw his stripes they will be healed i just wanna give it all and never look back because Jesus has done so much for me but its hard when i get tempted everyday by smoking and drinking and lust if u guys could pray for me it would be kind and appreciated

If you are saved, then ALL of your sins have been cleansed, regardless of how many times you've been baptized. The baptism is just an outward sing of an inward change that God has effected in you. Baptism does not cleanse you of sin. Only God can do that.

God bless you, bud.

 

[nate1989]

K. Thanks god bless u too

 

[thatbrian]

If you are saved, then ALL of your sins have been cleansed, regardless of how many times you've been baptized. The baptism is just an outward sing of an inward change that God has effected in you. Baptism does not cleanse you of sin. Only God can do that.

God bless you, bud.

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

 

[robustheologian]

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

:applause:

 

[convicted1]

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

 

[PreachTony]

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

I'm PreachTony, and I approve this message. :thumbs: :applause:

 

[thatbrian]

Here's a more poetic way to say it:

Before the throne of God above
I have a strong and perfect plea:
A great High Priest, whose name is Love,
Who ever lives and pleads for me.

My name is graven on His hands,
My name is written on His heart;
I know that while in heaven He stands
No tongue can bid me thence depart
No tongue can bid me thence depart.

When Satan tempts me to despair,
And tells me of the guilt within,
Upward I look, and see Him there
Who made an end to all my sin.

Because the sinless Savior died,
My sinful soul is counted free;
For God the just is satisfied
To look on Him and pardon me
To look on Him and pardon me

Behold Him there, the Risen Lamb
My perfect, spotless righteousness,
The great unchangeable I am,
The King of glory and of grace!

One with Himself I cannot die
My soul is purchased by His blood
My life is hid with Christ on high,
With Christ, my Savior and my God
With Christ, my Savior and my God

Here's the musical version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LULK2nZ6sCc

 

[The Archangel]

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

Very well said!

The Archangel

 

[nate1989]

You guys have amazing feedback

 

[JamesL]

May I also chime in here, and add to what you said.

Christianity is NOT about starting over or second chances. Given and second, third or thousandth chance, we will would all still blow it. Christianity is about an exchange. Jesus lived the life that you should have lived, and he died the death that you should have died. He took your place. By grace and through faith, he is your righteousness. He is your right standing before God.

Don't try to clean yourself up or reform yourself, rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean. Washed in the blood of the Savior, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

You can't scrub away your owns sins, but you can have them forgiven. Just ask.

If every believer said stuff like that, there would be nary a disagreement.

Good stuff.

 

[nate1989]

Goodmorning peeps!!!!

 

[salzer mtn]

It could be argued that that position is splitting hairs. Either way, man is incapable of repenting unless God first moves within them. So we're back to the first point of contention I see with this position, which is God holding man responsible for doing something that God must first move in them to do, yet God does not move in them, but still blames them all the same.

God holds man responsible, yes. Even though they have not the ability in themselves to repent, He still hold them responsible. Shall God lower his standards because man cannot measure up ? no. The question should be ask, what made man with a inability to repent ? It was not God, because God made man upright. To understand sovereign grace a man has to understand Adam was the human race federal head. All the human race was in Adam, so when Adam fell we fell in him. So the blame falls on Adam and not God. If man has an inability it was inherited from the Adam nature that all his seed received. God could have left all of mankind in a state of sin, passed by them and condemned the human race to hell. Was God obligated to save any ? no. God only chose to save a number that no man can number and this magnifies his grace as well as leaving the rest of mankind in their sins that magnifies his justice. The flesh will always rebel against this, human reasoning will always rebel against the fact that God can do as he will with is own creation. Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour ? Always remember, Gods ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts, Isa 55:8

 

[InTheLight]

If man has an inability it was inherited from the Adam nature that all his seed received.

Yes, and where did the Adam nature come from? Who originated that? Who decided all his offspring would inherit it?

 

[PreachTony]

God holds man responsible, yes. Even though they have not the ability in themselves to repent, He still hold them responsible. Shall God lower his standards because man cannot measure up ? no. The question should be ask, what made man with a inability to repent ? It was not God, because God made man upright. To understand sovereign grace a man has to understand Adam was the human race federal head. All the human race was in Adam, so when Adam fell we fell in him. So the blame falls on Adam and not God. If man has an inability it was inherited from the Adam nature that all his seed received. God could have left all of mankind in a state of sin, passed by them and condemned the human race to hell. Was God obligated to save any ? no. God only chose to save a number that no man can number and this magnifies his grace as well as leaving the rest of mankind in their sins that magnifies his justice. The flesh will always rebel against this, human reasoning will always rebel against the fact that God can do as he will with is own creation. Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour ? Always remember, Gods ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts, Isa 55:8

I'm familiar with the positions of total inability and limited atonement, salzer, even if I disagree with them. As stated, I'm hung up on the idea of God requiring repentance while man is only able to repent if God moves him to do so, but then God withholds that ability from man, but blames him all the same.

But we're also stuck with this:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus proclaims His desire to gather the people of Jerusalem unto Himself, but they were unwilling. If God exercises the level of control that the Limited Atonement / Total Inability crowd claims He does (and I am in no way questioning God's power, as I believe He is in full control, though I believe in His sovereignty he granted man freedom of will) then this statement from Christ is just a bit confusing. Why would Jesus lament the people not being willing to come to Him if it took Him moving in them first to make them desire to come to Him?

Consider what Jesus said to the church at Laodicea:

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Why would Jesus frame these words as such, saying if "any man" hear His voice and open the door, that He would come in unto that man? Why say it like that, if the only way man could ever open the door is if God moved him to open the door? Why not say "If any man hear my voice, and the Spirit of God regenerate his spirit and soul, and convince him of his salvation, then allow him to open the door, I will come in to him"?

Consider the last invitation recorded in the Bible:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Why would the Word of God say that whosoever will could take freely of the water of life if, in fact, that is not true, and it's only those who God foreordains to move toward the water of life? Why would the Word invite "whosoever will" if, in fact, God has no intention whatsoever of allowing certain people who He has already damned to ever attain unto the water of life?

I'm going to be really honest with you, salzer...if I consider the positions of Limited Atonement and Total Inability, and then I read these invitations from Christ, I'm left wondering why God would choose to be so confusing in His own Word. If any human did these things, we would be trying to determine if they were bi-polar, or whatever psychological impairment might be applicable. And yes, I know God's ways are above our ways, but I also know God left us His Word for us to study and meditate on. I don't believe He would leave us His word and then be so frustratingly vague within it. These three scenarios, each within the scripture itself, show me that Total Inability cannot work. Others see it in the scripture, and that's there business. I don't. I don't see the majority of Calvinistic doctrine within the scripture.

 

[salzer mtn]

preach Tony, I could also say, I'm hung up on the fact that if God loves everyone and Christ died for everyone and shed his blood for everyone then why does he cast a multitude in hell ? After all, Paul said, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ, and then in verses 38 and 39 of Rom eight after he gives a list Paul says nor any other creature can separate us from the love of Christ. But wake up all the freewill people who believe Christ shed his blood for every one, hell is a separation, and we know according to scripture there are people in hell. So the conclusion is, Christ blood is not sufficient to save or his blood does not cover every human in the whole world. You sing there is power in the blood, do you believe it or not ?

 

[PreachTony]

preach Tony, I could also say, I'm hung up on the fact that if God loves everyone and Christ died for everyone and shed his blood for everyone then why does he cast a multitude in hell ? After all, Paul said, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ, and then in verses 38 and 39 of Rom eight after he gives a list Paul says nor any other creature can separate us from the love of Christ. But wake up all the freewill people who believe Christ shed his blood for every one, hell is a separation, and we know according to scripture there are people in hell. So the conclusion is, Christ blood is not sufficient to save or his blood does not cover every human in the whole world. You sing there is power in the blood, do you believe it or not ?

The free will position, at least where I am concerned, is that Christ's blood is sufficient, but because God granted free will to us, He does not force salvation on anyone. You ask "if God loves everyone and Christ died for everyone and shed his blood for everyone then why does he cast a multitude in hell ?" According to my point of view, He does not cast multitudes into Hell. Humans, of their own volition, choose a path that ends in Hell.

The predestination position, when coupled with scriptures, inevitably reveals a God who decided from the very beginning to cast the vast majority of His own creation, which He called good, into Hell and torment. After all, few enter at the strait gate and narrow way, but many enter along the broad path and wide gate that leads to destruction. If you are going to hold to predestination/election, then you have to believe that, otherwise your own theology can find itself in contradiction.

 

[DHK]

The free will position, at least where I am concerned, is that Christ's blood is sufficient, but because God granted free will to us, He does not force salvation on anyone. You ask "if God loves everyone and Christ died for everyone and shed his blood for everyone then why does he cast a multitude in hell ?" According to my point of view, He does not cast multitudes into Hell. Humans, of their own volition, choose a path that ends in Hell.

There is a good example of that on this thread.
In post #35 Nate said:

I wanna get born again but im not sure how to go about the task! Have u guys ever healed in jesus name?


In post #45 Brian answered:
rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean.

Interestingly enough, no one disagreed with Brian but all gave him a thumbsup, indicating his answer was very good.
It was also an answer that put forth a belief in free will--"trust in Jesus and you will be clean."
--This is the type of answer any non-Cal would give to such an inquiry, and to which every Calvinist would object to. But there was no objection to the answer, only consent. I find that very interesting.

 

[The Archangel]

There is a good example of that on this thread.
In post #35 Nate said:

I wanna get born again but im not sure how to go about the task! Have u guys ever healed in jesus name?


In post #45 Brian answered:
rather, trust in Christ, and you will be clean.

Interestingly enough, no one disagreed with Brian but all gave him a thumbsup, indicating his answer was very good.
It was also an answer that put forth a belief in free will--"trust in Jesus and you will be clean."
--This is the type of answer any non-Cal would give to such an inquiry, and to which every Calvinist would object to. But there was no objection to the answer, only consent. I find that very interesting.

Again we have a demonstration of ignorance concerning the Calvinist position. No Calvinist that I know of says that you don't need to trust in Christ.

The issue is not the need to believe in Christ. Rather, the issue is the first cause of the belief. Non-Calvinists, for the most part, believe the first cause is within the individual. Calvinists, on the other hand, believe that the first cause is from God--He is the one who acts and pursues; we are the ones who respond.

The Archangel