Many Means All??

[Tsalagi]

If I am not found in Christ...yes.

Tsalagi, it ultimately comes down to whether God saves by a person's self-righteousness or whether God saves by unmerited grace. You are arguing for salvation by works as you argue that God loves sinners. Yet, God loves His Son and it is only in Christ that He loves you and me.

No, it ultimately comes down to what the Bible says about God's love for men "while we were yet sinners" in Romans 5:8.

Is that page missing in your copy? Works has nothing to do with it.

 

[AustinC]

It seems a review of the discussion is in order here. I said, "The question was whether someone in bondage to sin can have a desire to escape. The answer of course is clearly yes. But you (1689) discounted this ability to desire freedom because such motivation is selfish, and then asked 'But is he leaving that sin to seek after God and to follow Him?' How is seeking God and following Him not motivated by self-interest? Selfless interest in the glory of God rather than one's own deliverance sounds an awful lot like a human merit contribution to salvation." To which 1689 replied, "Seeking God and following him is the desire to please and glorify God, not get yourself out of jail."

The people of God, old covenant and new covenant, are motivated by God Himself to faithfulness and obedience through the promise of reward and the threat of judgment. It hardly seems reasonable that unbelievers must be motivated only by "the desire to please and glorify God" and not to get themselves out of bondage, seek those blessings, and avoid those judgments, as 1689 seems to think.

Are you following the thought?

I answered this. I said that people will desire to conquer their demons by their own power because they will not, by nature, relinquish control to God. They want God to help, but they don't want God to take the reins.

Free will tells people that they never have to give up the reins to God. They retain all control and, if they are good enough, God will let them keep the reins as God helps them out.

 

[AustinC]

No, it ultimately comes down to what the Bible says about God's love for men "while we were yet sinners" in Romans 5:8.

Is that page missing in your copy? Works has nothing to do with it.

We and us are referring to the elect. It amazes me how you disregard such an obvious truth.

 

[Salty]

Six Hour Warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 7 pm EST / 4 pm PST

This thread is closed