Marian Apparitions

[Thinkingstuff]

Just a personal note on the Rosary. It began by monks praying the Psalms using knotted rope for each Psalm. It basically was a devotion of discipline to remember the scriptures. Later it developed into the form we have today.

However, its hasn't changed its nature in that it is a discipline. The idea of the decades or 5 sections of 10 beads is that the operator of this tool (which the rosary is) is requesting Mary to pray along with him/her. During this exercise of praying a series of prayers the person recalls the gospel passages about certain aspects of christ life. Therefore as you pray for Mary to pray alone with you your mind recalls 4 sets of 5 gospel events.
1)the Joyful mysteries - events recalling the Announcement by the angel to Mary about the incarnation, Mary's visit with Elizabeth and Johns recation at the near presence of our Lord, the Birth of the Lord and the events around it, the circumcision of Jesus at the Temple and the prophets proclimation about Jesus, and the finding of Jesus in the Temple when he was young about 12-13 years of age.
2) The sorrowful mysteries - events recalling the agony Jesus went through in the garden praying to his father, the pittiful trial he went through before the Sanhedrien, the scorging at the post, the crowning of thorns, the walk through Jerusalem to golgotha, and the crucifixion.
3) The Glorious mysteries - events recalling his resurection, accention, the out pouring of the Holy Spirit on pentecost, the promise of our ressurrection through the already recieved promise to Mary, and the promise of our eternal reward through the reward given to Mary for her obedience.
4) the Luminous mysteries - events recalling Jesus' ministry ie the baptism of Jesus, the wedding feast, the proclimation of the kingdom, Jesus transfiguration, and the last supper.

The idea of this discipline is to consentrate on these gospel items and to align the christians life with that of Jesus all the while asking for the intersession of Mary as a prayer partner. That is how it is meant to be used. Note the final prayer after completing the 5 decades

O God, whose only-begotten Son, by His life, death and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life; grant, we beseech Thee, that, meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

 

[Matt Black]

I think fundamentally Annsi will say no because God has already decreed who will and will not be saved. Thus prayers for either catagory of person's salvation is wasted.

Then prayer itself is of no avail if God has already decreed what will happen and James 5:15-17 is in error.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Then prayer itself is of no avail if God has already decreed what will happen and James 5:15-17 is in error.

Sounds like double predestination to me.

WM

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Then prayer itself is of no avail if God has already decreed what will happen and James 5:15-17 is in error.

I'm afraid many to most on here are Supralapsarian in belief.

Just as an aside. Didn't Luther want to do away with James? Also some here will say James is saying that with regard to the presentation of the believer to the Non believer not anything really to do with salvation.

 

[annsni]

I'm going to post once more because honestly, I am getting a very uncomfortable feeling in my spirit with what is being posted here. Growing up in an extended Roman Catholic family and 6 years of Catholic school along with having a best friend who is a cantor married to a deacon and the daughter of a deacon makes me not quite ignorant of the doctrine of the church. But to say that we run to Mary as our "mother" is just scary. I run to no one but my Savior Jesus Christ, my Advocate, my Redeemer, my God. I don't build anything to anyone else. I do not pray to anyone else. I don't cry to anyone else. I don't look to anyone else. God alone. Amen.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm going to post once more because honestly, I am getting a very uncomfortable feeling in my spirit with what is being posted here. Growing up in an extended Roman Catholic family and 6 years of Catholic school along with having a best friend who is a cantor married to a deacon and the daughter of a deacon makes me not quite ignorant of the doctrine of the church. But to say that we run to Mary as our "mother" is just scary. I run to no one but my Savior Jesus Christ, my Advocate, my Redeemer, my God. I don't build anything to anyone else. I do not pray to anyone else. I don't cry to anyone else. I don't look to anyone else. God alone. Amen.

No one, well not that I've observed, has asked you to pray to Mary. However, it is compared to asking a fellow congregant to pray for you and your needs which I believe you see no issue with. The idea is once you are a member of the Kingdom you have a role in the kindgom not just temporally but eternally and we are all connected by Jesus Christ as we are his church. This is how it is being explained for your understanding. Not that anyone is asking you to do so. I am sorry you feel that way.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

News flash... The KJV wasn't the American translation of which you pontificated.

Never said it was. It was YOU who brought up the KJV. You sure do like to put words in people's mouths.

No. Why would I?

WM

I'd just be interested in how you defend it. It sure looks like pagan idolatry, to me.

 

[annsni]

No one, well not that I've observed, has asked you to pray to Mary. However, it is compared to asking a fellow congregant to pray for you and your needs which I believe you see no issue with. The idea is once you are a member of the Kingdom you have a role in the kindgom not just temporally but eternally and we are all connected by Jesus Christ as we are his church. This is how it is being explained for your understanding. Not that anyone is asking you to do so. I am sorry you feel that way.

Mary is dead. She once walked on earth and she is now dead to the earth. My fellow congregant is not and can actually hear me. If you can show me in Scripture where Mary can hear the prayers of those here on earth, or show me in Scripture where we are told to pray to anyone but God, then I will begin to do so. But since you cannot show me any of this, I will not do it. She cannot hear you. She cannot communicate to God your prayers if she cannot hear you. She cannot be an intercessor for you and bring your prayers to the throne. There is One who can do this and He died for us. Jesus told us how to pray and it was not to Mary but to the Father. I listen to Jesus - not a man-made church that is corrupt.

 

[The Biblicist]

So, you now are acting as the interpreter for the demon of Fatima???

I can see why this would be confusing without more background on Catholic theology to understand what this means. This isn't saying that Jacinta will be saved by saying the rosary. Using your vocabulary, it means that Jacinta is saved already, but the process of sanctification taking place in him will require him to spend a lot of time in prayer before it can be completed.

Lucia then asked if they would go to heaven and she was told yes, she and Jacinta would go to heaven, but Francisco would need to say many rosaries first.

Your commentary makes no sense. The demon of Fatima speaks about three living persons (Lucia, Jacinta, Francisco) and flatly states two will go to heaven but the third must say the roasary many more times in order to go to heaven.

If you commentary had any validity it would apply equally to all three but it clearly does not. Hence, it is repeating the rosary that secures heaven for Francisco while not for Lucia and Jacinta. Not only so, but the demon of Fatima guarantees world peace if these three children say the rosary every day. Hence, the emphasis and power of salvation and world peace is not on Christ but on repetition of a rosary - blasphemeous

13 July 1917

"I want you to come here on the 13th of next month, [August] to continue to pray the Rosary every day in honour of Our Lady of the Rosary, in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war, because only she can help you." Pure blasmphemy!!!!!

Again, you can't understand this without understanding what the devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is about. To embrace this devotion means to have the same love for Jesus that Mary had for her Son, and to have the same intimate relationship with Jesus that Mary had with her Son, who of course lived in her womb then was raised by her. It is a call to be as close to Christ as Mary was. So it is saying that anyone who has such a personal relationship with Christ will be saved. It's not as far off the mark as it sounds.

She explained later that she had been given to understand that this related to the five main types of blasphemies and offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary: that is against the Immaculate Conception; against Mary's Virginity; against her Divine Maternity and her spiritual motherhood of mankind; for the offences of those who encourage in the hearts of children indifference, contempt and even hatred of her, and finally as reparation for those who outrage her in her holy images.

Here is the Demon's own explanation of the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" which is far different than what you say. This blaspemours demonic whore is so-self serving and self-grandizing it is pathetic! Her "holy images"???? Give me a break!

Does dedicating a building to a person constitute worship? Here we dedicate arenas to people we honor, usually a politician or a person who did some good deed. It isn't worship. Catholics similarly dedicate each church to a particular saint. It doesn't mean that the church isn't primarily meant to worship God. Just like the person who an arena is dedicated to doesn't have the right to come to the arena and use it any time he wants. It's just a way of honoring someone.

"dedicating"????? Read all her statements!!!! This demonic whore wants worship! That is the honour that permeates her entire communications.

 

[JarJo]

I'm going to post once more because honestly, I am getting a very uncomfortable feeling in my spirit with what is being posted here. Growing up in an extended Roman Catholic family and 6 years of Catholic school along with having a best friend who is a cantor married to a deacon and the daughter of a deacon makes me not quite ignorant of the doctrine of the church. But to say that we run to Mary as our "mother" is just scary. I run to no one but my Savior Jesus Christ, my Advocate, my Redeemer, my God. I don't build anything to anyone else. I do not pray to anyone else. I don't cry to anyone else. I don't look to anyone else. God alone. Amen.

Same here. I'm Catholic and I run only to Jesus my savior too. I never think of praying to the saints when I have a problem, I go direct to God in Jesus name. On the other hand I don't see the harm, but since I don't see it in scripture, it isn't part of what I do.

 

[The Biblicist]

Same here. I'm Catholic and I run only to Jesus my savior too. I never think of praying to the saints when I have a problem, I go direct to God in Jesus name. On the other hand I don't see the harm, but since I don't see it in scripture, it isn't part of what I do.

Where in scripture can you find her pereptual virginity?

Where in scripture can you find she is the spiritual mother of all of God's children?

Where in scripture can you find she was born without sin?

This is not the Mary of the Bible but the demon of Babylon!

 

[The Biblicist]

So, you now are acting as the interpreter for the demon of Fatima???




Lucia then asked if they would go to heaven and she was told yes, she and Jacinta would go to heaven, but Francisco would need to say many rosaries first.

Your commentary makes no sense. The demon of Fatima speaks about three living persons (Lucia, Jacinta, Francisco) and flatly states two will go to heaven but the third must say the roasary many more times in order to go to heaven.

If you commentary had any validity it would apply equally to all three but it clearly does not. Hence, it is repeating the rosary that secures heaven for Francisco while not for Lucia and Jacinta. Not only so, but the demon of Fatima guarantees world peace if these three children say the rosary every day. Hence, the emphasis and power of salvation and world peace is not on Christ but on repetition of a rosary - blasphemeous

13 July 1917

"I want you to come here on the 13th of next month, [August] to continue to pray the Rosary every day in honour of Our Lady of the Rosary, in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war, because only she can help you." Pure blasmphemy!!!!!






She explained later that she had been given to understand that this related to the five main types of blasphemies and offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary: that is against the Immaculate Conception; against Mary's Virginity; against her Divine Maternity and her spiritual motherhood of mankind; for the offences of those who encourage in the hearts of children indifference, contempt and even hatred of her, and finally as reparation for those who outrage her in her holy images.

Here is the Demon's own explanation of the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" which is far different than what you say. This blaspemours demonic whore is so-self serving and self-grandizing it is pathetic! Her "holy images"???? Give me a break!




"dedicating"????? Read all her statements!!!! This demonic whore wants worship! That is the honour that permeates her entire communications.

This demon from Fatima makes it clear that she takes honor unto herself and her "holy images" when Jesus said the Holy Spirit would not even speak of Himself but would glorify Christ.

Roman Catholicism does not believe in the Trinity but in at minimum a Quadrintity (The Father and Mother God, The Son and The Holy Spirit) but in reality Polytheism as their "saints" are nothing but "gods" they worship. Their leader "Pontifex Maximus" is the High Preist of the Mystery Babylon Religon with its "college of Pontiffs" (cardinals) and there "Madonna" which they call "Mary" is the harlot of Babylon and thus Rome is the Great Whore of Revelation.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Mary is dead. She once walked on earth and she is now dead to the earth.

Well, that is your opinion and one which differs from that of many Christians. When we die, we are judged and our destination is either heaven or hell. The spirits of the departed who are saved do not cease being members of the body of Christ. They are ALIVE in heaven in the presence of God.

Now do you understand the difference between being spiritually alive in heaven and physically dead on Earth? We cast off the mortal coil at death. We don't suddenly stop existing - the worm that never dies.

Get it? Good!

WM

 

[The Biblicist]

When we die, we are judged and our destination is either heaven or hell. WM

Not according to demon whore of Fatima! It is not heaven or hell but purgatory for most!

 

[Zenas]

What does that mean? What is a Spiritual Mother? What part of scripture says she is a Spiritual Mother? Or is this just a non scriptural church edict?

This one works for me.

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Revelation 12:17.

You can also look at John 19:27.

 

[WestminsterMan]

This demon from Fatima makes it clear that she takes honor unto herself and her "holy images" when Jesus said the Holy Spirit would not even speak of Himself but would glorify Christ.

Roman Catholicism does not believe in the Trinity but in at minimum a Quadrintity (The Father and Mother God, The Son and The Holy Spirit) but in reality Polytheism as their "saints" are nothing but "gods" they worship. Their leader "Pontifex Maximus" is the High Preist of the Mystery Babylon Religon with its "college of Pontiffs" (cardinals) and there "Madonna" which they call "Mary" is the harlot of Babylon and thus Rome is the Great Whore of Revelation.

No sir - that's what you want the RCC to believe. If you want to believe that drivel then it is your prerogative to continue in your delusions, but stop trying to pass that tripe off as fact.

WM

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Mary is dead. She once walked on earth and she is now dead to the earth. My fellow congregant is not and can actually hear me. If you can show me in Scripture where Mary can hear the prayers of those here on earth, or show me in Scripture where we are told to pray to anyone but God, then I will begin to do so.

First of all I'm not asking you to do anything. However, Lets explore this further. Deut 34:5-8

5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. 6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. 8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.

It is clear from this Passage that Moses died. However, is Moses dead? Is Moses as you say "dead to the earth"? What does scripture say? Matthew 17:1-3

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Mark 9:2

2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

Now pay particular attention to Luke 9

28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31 appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem.

Not only do we have a man "dead to the world" as you put it but aware enough of the circumstances to specifically discuss Jesus' departure and fulfillment which of course is his suffering and death to fulfill justice on behalf of mankind. Clearly then we see from these passages that though you as a believer may have physically died it is clear that being with God you are aware of the cirucmstances going on and that you aren't really dead but actually alive. More alive than you were bodily here. So your first analysis is wrong. We are not dead. And we are not dead to the world. The Truth is we are alive! And we know whats up! Look at what Moses was doing. He was speaking to Jesus. At this point Jesus hadn't raised from the dead. Jesus is incarnate and fully human but he was speaking with Moses. Therefore, this principles doesn't lie with Moses alone but the entire body of Believers who are the Church and the body of Jesus Christ which includes Mary. Therefore we can know that as with Moses who knew what was going on and could discuss this with Jesus, Mary can also be knowledgeable about world affairs so to speak.

 

[annsni]

Well, that is your opinion and one which differs from that of many Christians. When we die, we are judged and our destination is either heaven or hell. The spirits of the departed who are saved do not cease being members of the body of Christ. They are ALIVE in heaven in the presence of God.

Now do you understand the difference between being spiritually alive in heaven and physically dead on Earth? We cast off the mortal coil at death. We don't suddenly stop existing - the worm that never dies.

Get it? Good!

WM

No need to be fresh. Yes, I understand. But then do we float around over the earth, omnipresent and omnipotent listening to the prayers of all so that we can run and deliver them to God? No. We do not. Jesus told us to pray to the Father. Not to man. I listen to Him.

 

[The Biblicist]

No sir - that's what you want the RCC to believe. If you want to believe that drivel then it is your prerogative to continue in your delusions, but stop trying to pass that tripe off as fact.

WM

Yes sir, IT IS FACT! It is fact based both upon the Bible (Rev. 17-19:4) and upon history - undeniable fact! Her religion is nothing more than mystery babylonian christianized. Her Pope is the High Preist of Babylon Religion and wears his crown with the exact same words on it. Her college of cardinals is Babylons college of Pontiffs, Her Mary is the Babylonian whore 'Madonna" and her Jesus is the harlot Maddona's babe. Her saints are the gods of babylonian and her religion comes from the pit of hell and will go back to the pit of hell. Her history is the history of apostasy.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No need to be fresh. Yes, I understand. But then do we float around over the earth, omnipresent and omnipotent listening to the prayers of all so that we can run and deliver them to God? No. We do not. Jesus told us to pray to the Father. Not to man. I listen to Him.

What do you do with the passages I've shown? in post 197