Marian Apparitions

[WestminsterMan]

When John speaks of Jerusalem as the "great city" he symbolizes it as "Sodom and Egypt" not "Mystery Babylon":

Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

However, when he speaks of Rome as the "great city" he defines it in such terms that only fools could not see as Rome was the ONLY Great city that sits on seven hills and is reigning over the kings of the earth at the time he wrote:

Rom. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Only pure theological bias can deny this is Rome.

1. This text does not say this city is reigning over ALL the kings of the earth but Jerusalem was reigning over NONE - ZERO - ZILCH kings when he wrote this.

2. This city killed the apostles plural but Jerusalem killed ONE apostle.

This Woman is a liar and and deceiver and that is precisely what we can expect of her apologists.

I hope you aren't calling me a "...liar and and deceiver..." because I'm not an apologist for the RCC.

WM

 

[Matt Black]

Put up or shut up! You are in no position to make false charges that you can't support. If you or your so-called "Christians" you claim assert what you claim they assert then bring it on or stop mouthing hot air!

There's no point; your posts are so blinded by bigotry and rudeness that it would be akin to casting pearls before swine. You're just as bad as the other lot to which I referred; both of you are so self-assured in your own arrogance and self-righteousness that you agree 100% with Scripture despite having come to diametrically opposed conclusions as to what Scripture 'quite clearly says' that there is no point in engaging with either of you.

 

[The Biblicist]

There's no point; your posts are so blinded by bigotry and rudeness that it would be akin to casting pearls before swine. You're just as bad as the other lot to which I referred; both of you are so self-assured in your own arrogance and self-righteousness that you agree 100% with Scripture despite having come to diametrically opposed conclusions as to what Scripture 'quite clearly says' that there is no point in engaging with either of you.

You sir, are the one who started making "hear say" charges about so-called "Christians" who say this and say that! No substance, no verification, nothing but hot air! Any idiot can make the response you made to the evidence placed before them by simply saying unnamed so and so says blah, blah, blah.

Give evidence or simply bow out of a conversation that you really have nothing substantial to give but unsubstantiated hot air!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If you hate the Catholic Church, then you do indeed hate individual Catholics as they ARE the Church. You might as well own up to it... Be a man and say what you really believe.

I've told you what I believe. I don't hate anybody. Sorry you ain't smart enough to see it.

Why apologize for something unless you believe you are wrong? As I said, I stand vindicated. You do have hate in your heart against the Church. As to having a thick skin, I can handle anything on a personal level. I've been in many a bar fight in my time. However, picking on fellow Christians who have little representation here appears cowardly.

WM

Nothing in that paragraph is worthy of a response.

And you ARE an apologist.

 

[Matt Black]

You sir, are the one who started making "hear say" charges about so-called "Christians" who say this and say that! No substance, no verification, nothing but hot air! Any idiot can make the response you made to the evidence placed before them by simply saying unnamed so and so says blah, blah, blah.

Give evidence or simply bow out of a conversation that you really have nothing substantial to give but unsubstantiated hot air!

You're just being rude and I refuse to engage with someone as rude and unpleasnat as you. I will just ignore your posts from now on as they are filled with unChristlike hate and anger.

 

[DHK]

You're just being rude and I refuse to engage with someone as rude and unpleasnat as you. I will just ignore your posts from now on as they are filled with unChristlike hate and anger.

Biblicist, I have quoted Matt here because he is right. I know of your zeal but your posts are becoming rude and unpleasant.

Please consider some of the verses related to this subject (though we are off topic and it does not have much to do with that apparitions of Mary).

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

There are some things to consider here.
1. The standard historical interpretation for years has been that the RCC is the beast, the persecutor of Christians, the one that best fits this definition.

2. John was writing at the end of the first century. It is an apocalyptic book. Of course that doesn't make it nonfactual, it means that there could be other possibilities. It looks to the future.

3. In the last century (20th) there were more Christians martyred than all other centuries put together. Can you guess who by? It wasn't the RCC.

4. It is very possible that Islam will become the one world church, the beast, the false prophet that the Bible refers to. Have you heard of Chrislum (sp?) ?

5. Another possibility is it simply refers to the one world church that we are headed to (and very quickly) that will be ruled by one world leader called the false prophet. By that time I hope to be raptured. Look at the forces in play. The Charismatic movement is doing more than any other movement to bring churches together. The other great movement is the ecumenical movement. Humanism and the New Age Movement are also doing their best to break down doctrinal barriers. It is evident even on this board, that there are some that care more for their own experiences rather than the doctrine of the Bible. It may simply symbolize the one world church that will soon come to power.

The above are possible interpretations. I know what many people think fits best, but I don't think we can be absolutely dogmatic about it. And I certainly don't think our language should be belligerent and rude. Of course the latter statement applies to us all.

 

[DaChaser1]

Biblicist, I have quoted Matt here because he is right. I know of your zeal but your posts are becoming rude and unpleasant.

Please consider some of the verses related to this subject (though we are off topic and it does not have much to do with that apparitions of Mary).

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

There are some things to consider here.
1. The standard historical interpretation for years has been that the RCC is the beast, the persecutor of Christians, the one that best fits this definition.

2. John was writing at the end of the first century. It is an apocalyptic book. Of course that doesn't make it nonfactual, it means that there could be other possibilities. It looks to the future.

3. In the last century (20th) there were more Christians martyred than all other centuries put together. Can you guess who by? It wasn't the RCC.

4. It is very possible that Islam will become the one world church, the beast, the false prophet that the Bible refers to. Have you heard of Chrislum (sp?) ?

5. Another possibility is it simply refers to the one world church that we are headed to (and very quickly) that will be ruled by one world leader called the false prophet. By that time I hope to be raptured. Look at the forces in play. The Charismatic movement is doing more than any other movement to bring churches together. The other great movement is the ecumenical movement. Humanism and the New Age Movement are also doing their best to break down doctrinal barriers. It is evident even on this board, that there are some that care more for their own experiences rather than the doctrine of the Bible. It may simply symbolize the one world church that will soon come to power.

The above are possible interpretations. I know what many people think fits best, but I don't think we can be absolutely dogmatic about it. And I certainly don't think our language should be belligerent and rude. Of course the latter statement applies to us all.

Think could say that trhe RCC at this time would come the closest to being the fulfillment of those scriptures IF one takes a Futurist or an historical view on Revelation....

Also think that the RCC would bethe forerunner to that, as once End times would hit, what worldwide Apostate "christian' church best position to be in pwer and able to connecttogether remaining Apostste Christianity?

So if NOT it at present, good type of what will happen, perhaps even it fulfillment!

Agree can say things "nicer tone", but we do need to realise that the RCC at present, ever since refusal to agree with reformation, is Apostate version of Christianity!

Catholics are still saved by God, due to His working, despite their doctrines!

 

[The Biblicist]

You're just being rude and I refuse to engage with someone as rude and unpleasnat as you. I will just ignore your posts from now on as they are filled with unChristlike hate and anger.

My rudeness and unpleasantness was mere frustration in dealing with someone who makes invisible charges by invisible people and then expects me to respond to them as solid evidence!!!!

I apologize for being so rude and so unpleasant. I will try to do better.

 

[Matt Black]

Thanks; that's appreciated.

 

[WestminsterMan]

I've told you what I believe. I don't hate anybody. Sorry you ain't smart enough to see it.




Nothing in that paragraph is worthy of a response.

And you ARE an apologist.

And you ARE a psychic.

WM

 

[Alive in Christ]

This thread has turned into a complete train wreck, with the 2 sides trying to out insult each other.

I'm amazed that it hasnt been put out of its misery.

 

[annsni]

This thread has turned into a complete train wreck, with the 2 sides trying to out insult each other.

I'm amazed that it hasnt been put out of its misery.

I have stayed away because I really get disturbed in my soul when having discussions of praying to Mary and the excuses of why it's "OK" but I saw it went on and on so I figured I'd see where it was going and I was saddened to see that it had degraded to the point of where it is and I too am surprised it had not been shut down before now. Had I been a mod, I'd have closed it pages ago. It is not edifying nor it is it worthy of professing believers.

 

[DHK]

This thread has turned into a complete train wreck, with the 2 sides trying to out insult each other.

I'm amazed that it hasnt been put out of its misery.

Since it is 30 pages long now, we will act on that suggestion.