Mary, mother of God

[TP]

Greetings,

Most arguements on this board against the title "Mother of God" is the fear that Mary is somehow being elevated in some way. But this is not about Mary, it is about Christ. It is a Christological title which is there to correct christological problems.

peace

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

TP: How do you explain the rosary and the "Hail Mary" prayer that EVERY Catholic says?

 

[TP]

Greetings,

The rosary is a tool of prayer to help us to meditate on the Mysteries of Jesus Christ. Meditating on Christ is a good thing. I think even you would say that. Things like his carrying the cross, the resurrection, Pentecost, the Transfiguration, Preaching the Kingdom, his being born, all these mysteries of Jesus are meditated on in the Rosary, a good thing.

As far as the Hail Mary Prayer: The entire prayer up until the last line is taken from scripture. The last line is 'holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death." No worship there, just asking Mary to pray for us. I ask people to pray for me all the time. I also pray for others all the time.

peace

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

But what good does it do to ask a dead person to pray for you?

That is putting Mary in the place of intercessor and we no longer need one...

 

[dianetavegia]

Where, in scripture, does God tell us to use beads (idols?) to pray to dead people (more idols)?

In fact, scripture tells us necromancy is an abomination to God.

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Praying to or communication with the dead is necromancy.

Luke 16:24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

You said: so using normal family terms for the INCARNATE is to lower him to normal family status - which is also a deception.

Response: We can't use NORMAL family terms? Jesus was like us in ALL things except sin. All things. He is normal family. Lowering himself into a normal family was the REASON he came. He became like us, being born as a slave, even accepting death, death on a cross. Yes, God did lower himself to have a human mother.

peace

We are not God the Son -- Christ was.

We are not INCARNATE - God the Son was

We have a beginning with our real MOTHERS - God the Son DID NOT!

To gloss over the INCARNATE aspect of Christ's birth is to deny the Trinity in favor of exaulting Mary as "Mother of God".

I just can't go there. Neither do ANY NT authors go there (do you accuse them of not believing Christ was a man?) -- neither does the RCC call Joseph "The instructor of God" -- (do you accuse the RCC of not believing that Christ was God?)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You asked: But what good does it do to ask a dead person to pray for you?

Response: Don't you believe that Jesus gives life to those who believe? I am a Christian and I believe that those who believe, even though they died to this world are alive in Christ. I don't know about you, but I believe that jesus gives life. Really gives life. You may want to examine how much your really believe in Jesus if you do not believe that those who have gone before us are alive in Christ.

You said: That is putting Mary in the place of intercessor and we no longer need one...

Response: Christ is the one mediator and I pray directly to Jesus christ. Everyone should pray directly to jesus Christ. However I ask other to pray directly to Jesus christ for me as well. My mom Prays for me constantly, and I will never tell her to stop because she is an unnecessary intercessor. Everyone prays directly to Jesus, including those I ask to pray for me. Unless you tell all your friends to stop praying for you because they not necessary, then this arguement does not hold water. Jesus is our mediator to God and everyone is praying to him, including Mary,his mother.

peace

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: Where, in scripture, does God tell us to use beads (idols?) to pray to dead people (more idols)?

Response: Why is a bead and idol? All beads are is a counting device. You don't need beads to pray the rosary. Most often I just use my fingers. I have also used the nobs on my steering wheel. Beads are not an idol, just a counting device.

I am very sad that nobody on this board seems to believe that Jesus is the Lord of Life and anyone who believes in him has eternal life. that is very sad. I believe that anyone who has left this world IN ChRIST is alive with Christ in heaven. It is sad that people here don't believe that promise. People are alive in Christ in heaven. In fact they are more alive than we are here on earth.

peace

 

[BobRyan]

In 1Thess 4 Paul calls those saints who have died "The DEAD IN CHRIST" -- the RCC believes in Praying to the DEAD --- and by that they mean "The DEAD in Christ".

It is really very simple.

And though they pretend that this is the same as asking your fellow church member to pray FOR you when praying to the DEAD in Christ and asking THEM to pray to Christ for you -- yet they PROHIBIT the act of praying to your fellow living church member - because in fact it is NOT the same as the communion with the DEAD in Christ that they claim to hold.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: To gloss over the INCARNATE aspect of Christ's birth is to deny the Trinity in favor of exaulting Mary as "Mother of God".

Response: Nobody has ever said that Mary created God. However, No parent creates the soul of their children. God creates that. So being mother is not the creative dimension, but the giving birth dimension. Nobody is saying that Mary predates Jesus, or in anyway creates Jesus. In fact, I explained this already about three times in this thread(so apparently people are not reading). Mary gave birth to God, so is the mother of God.

peace

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Of course I have people praying for me and I pray for others. But they are not dead and have not been buried...

Mary can do nothing for me - anymore than my own mother who is deceased.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: yet they PROHIBIT the act of praying to your fellow living church member -

Response: If by prayer you mean worship, then you are correct. We cannot worship a church member, however, we also cannot worship mary. That is what we mean by prayer. We use the Older definition which means to ask. I could walk up to a church member and say: I pray you please intercede for me, because I am sick. The word prayer means 'to ask'(I pray that the court has lenience on my client). If you understand english, then this is not a problem

peace

 

[TP]

Greetings,

Here is a possiblity. Most on this board do not like the title "Mother of God" because according to you it implies creation or pre-existance(although it doesn't).

Would this be appropriate: Mary, who gave birth to God.

Would you at least go along with this title?

peace

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Why does she have to HAVE a title? Why is it so important to you?

If you truly believe that Jesus is all we need; why are you so stuck on Mary?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and My Mother

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and my Mother , from your sublime heights turn your eyes of pity on my. Filled with confidence in your goodness and knowing full well your power, I beg you to extend to me your assistance in the journey of life, which is so full of dangers for my soul. In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin, but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever, my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus. Mary, none of your devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved. Amen.
Saint Ephraem of Edessa

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Consecration to Mary

O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart.

We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are. To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country. We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee, and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction. And that this act of consecration may be truly efficacious and lasting, we renew this day at thy feet the promises of our Baptism and our first Holy Communion. We pledge ourselves to profess courageously and at all times the truths of our holy Faith, and to live as befits Catholics who are duly submissive to all the directions of the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him. We pledge ourselves to keep the commandments of God and His Church, in particular to keep holy the Lord's Day. We likewise pledge ourselves to make the consoling practices of the Christian religion, and above all, Holy Communion, an integral part of our lives, in so far as we shall be able so to do. Finally, we promise thee, O glorious Mother of God and loving Mother of men, to devote ourselves whole-heartedly to the service of thy blessed cult, in order to hasten and assure, through the sovereignty of thine Immaculate Heart, the coming of the kingdom of the Sacred Heart of thine adorable Son, in our own hearts and in those of all men, in our country and in all the world, as in heaven, so on earth. Amen.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

To Our Blessed Mother

We fly to your protection, most holy Mother of God; please listen to our petitions and needs, and deliver us from all dangers, ever glorious and blessed Virgin Mary.

Mary, our model and mother, by your obedience and patience you have taught us how to be true children of God. Please help us by your powerful assistance to overcome all our weaknesses, and to fulfill perfectly our tasks in life.

By your compassionate aid may we ever stand in spirit with you beneath the cross of Christ so that we may also rejoice with you in your divine Son's triumphant victory over sin and death.

In your maternal kindness help us to be faithful to prayers in the company of God's Church as you were one with the Apostles in the upper room as you waited for the promised Spirit of Pentecost.

With your gracious assistance may we be near you in the glory of Christ's kingdom come to sing with you and all the faithful the eternal praise of God. Amen.

V. O Mary, conceived without sin,
R. Pray for us who have recourse to you.

You are all fair, O Virgin Mary,
You never knew the stain of sin;
You are the glory of Jerusalem,
You, the joy of Israel,
You, the great honor of our people,
You, the advocate of sinners.
O Mary, Virgin most prudent,
O Mary, Mother most merciful,
Pray for us,
Intercede for us with our Lord,
Jesus Christ.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Thank you JB. I rest my case.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Ancient Prayer to the Virgin

We turn to you for protection,
holy Mother of God.
Listen to our prayers
and help us in our needs.
Save us from every danger,
glorious and blessed Virgin.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

I don't know this prayer. I have never seen this prayer. However, the main line in this prayer: my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus.

The only desire to Love Jesus: pretty positive if you ask me.

peace