Mary, Salvation, and Sin Offering

[SovereignGrace]

As I said before I don't care for this sort of thing but, who were they praying to and what was in their minds as they did this? Did any of them think the statue was God and were they worshipping the statue? I don't think so.

Now let's go to the Scriptures and see in one of the great commandments where God says that no graven images should be made - period! He then orders that the images of the Cherubim be affixed to the Ark of the Covenant. Call me crazy, but am I seeing some sort of contradiction here?

Sweetie(I mean this in a nice manner and not a snarky way), we have taken you and your other RCC friends to task and have dismantled your beliefs. My sincere prayer is that God will use us so that your eyes will be opened to what you need to come out from.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

As I said before I don't care for this sort of thing but, who were they praying to and what was in their minds as they did this? Did any of them think the statue was God and were they worshipping the statue? I don't think so.

Look at the pictures that have been posted. What would any ordinary person think? If you ask a Moslem who the Persons of the Trinity are, they will tell you God, Jesus and Mary, because that is whom they see Christians worshipping. Moslems have a particularly austere practice of (false) worship and Roman Catholic and 'Orthodox' idolatry is a major stumbling block to them coming to Christ.

You may remember that in 2 Kings 18:4-5, good king Hezekiah broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made because the Israelites had begun to worship it. Any sort of idolatry is anathema to God.

Now let's go to the Scriptures and see in one of the great commandments where God says that no graven images should be made - period! He then orders that the images of the Cherubim be affixed to the Ark of the Covenant. Call me crazy, but am I seeing some sort of contradiction here?

Not really. No Israelite ever saw those cherubim because they were in the holiest place, where only the high priest could go once a year. There is no High Priest now save Jesus, and the ark and the cherubim are long gone.

Finally, let's see what God really things about idols:

'But our God is in heaven;
He does whatever He pleases.
The idols of the nations are silver and gold,
The work of men's hands.
They have mouths but they do not speak;
Eyes they have but they do not see;
They have ears but they do not hear;
Noses they have but they do not smell;
They have hands but they do not handle;
Feet they have but they do not walk;
Nor do they mutter through their throat..
Those who make them are like them;
So is everyone who trusts in them.

O Israel, trust in the LORD;
He is their help and their shield' (Psalm 115:3-9).

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Okay, that shows Matt 1:18,25 does not disprove the perpetual virginity of Mary. For positive biblical evidence that Mary intended to remain a virgin even in marriage, why would she ask the angel Gabriel --

"How can this be, since I do not know a man?" (Luke 1:34)"

This is pretty desperate stuff, Walter. First of all, why would she be getting married if she had decided to remain a virgin all her life? Secondly, where did God instruct her to do so? And thirdly, she says, '....Since I do not know a man,' not, 'since I will not know a man.'

 

[Zenas]

To say Mary and Joseph never had intercourse is a horrid stance. We can plainly read But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[Matthew 1:25] The word used in the NIV I used is the word 'know' used by the KJV. This is what the Greek word used means Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. No matter how you try to twist it, Mary was not sinless, even before conception, let alone her whole life. And by her having intercourse with Joseph in no way defiled her.

Apparently you didn't read the last paragraph of my post because this is largely nonresponsive to what I posted. If you had read it you would know I said nothing about Mary being sinless.

[/QUOTE]She did, in fact, have children. We can read "Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”[Matthew 13:56] The Greek word for 'sisters' means full, own sister, one connected by the tie of the Christian religion. Now, the context does not refer to them as His Sisters as being believers, but His natural sisters, half-sisters seeing Joseph and Mary had them.[/QUOTE]Go back and read paragraph 2 of my post.

 

[Adonia]

Sweetie(I mean this in a nice manner and not a snarky way), we have taken you and your other RCC friends to task and have dismantled your beliefs. My sincere prayer is that God will use us so that your eyes will be opened to what you need to come out from.

Sorry, but we sincerely believe WE are in the Church Jesus established here on earth, and you are the one's who reject that. We hope that your eyes will be opened and you will stop believing in the words of men and their fallible interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. We rely on the Church and it's over 2000 year history, not one man or our individual selves, but on the whole Church and all who have come before us.

The idea that Jesus has been reduced to grape juice and crackers is not going to cut it.

 

[Revmitchell]

What is not going to cut it is worship of Mary and the many false doctrines concerning her from the Catholic church.

 

[annsni]

The idea that Jesus has been reduced to grape juice and crackers is not going to cut it.

Wow - What a low view of Jesus. I don't know ANY believer who has ever felt this way. Why post a lie?

 

[SovereignGrace]

What is not going to cut it is worship of Mary and the many false doctrines concerning her from the Catholic church.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Wow - What a low view of Jesus. I don't know ANY believer who has ever felt this way. Why post a lie?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sorry, but we sincerely believe WE are in the Church Jesus established here on earth, and you are the one's who reject that. We hope that your eyes will be opened and you will stop believing in the words of men and their fallible interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. We rely on the Church and it's over 2000 year history, not one man or our individual selves, but on the whole Church and all who have come before us.

Sorry, but sincerely believing a falsehood is still believing a falsehood, sincerely or not.

The idea that Jesus has been reduced to grape juice and crackers is not going to cut it.

That is what He is reduced to in the RCC. Then there's all the idol worship of kissing every image, statute of Christ and Mary, and cross. That's idolatry at its finest...or worst.

 

[JonC]

Wow - What a low view of Jesus. I don't know ANY believer who has ever felt this way. Why post a lie?

Just a guess, but maybe because they reduce Jesus to wine and bread?

 

[Adonia]

Just a guess, but maybe because they reduce Jesus to wine and bread?

No, the wine and bread are the elements that contain the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. The grape juice and crackers are just that, they mean nothing but that in the non-orthodox faith traditions. So in the end, why bother?

 

[Adonia]

Sorry, but sincerely believing a falsehood is still believing a falsehood, sincerely or not.


That is what He is reduced to in the RCC. Then there's all the idol worship of kissing every image, statute of Christ and Mary, and cross. That's idolatry at its finest...or worst.

Those things are child's play. If we are guilty of idolatry, the top example would be our belief in his "Real Presence" in the Holy Eucharist. If we are wrong, we are in deep trouble with God. Now, if you folks are wrong, well, let's just say this denial will be devastating for you.

 

[Adonia]

Wow - What a low view of Jesus. I don't know ANY believer who has ever felt this way. Why post a lie?

Not a lie, but the truth. Why bother because communion means nothing to you folks. It's just an example, a going through the motions, an utterly and totally meaningless action despite Jesus's own words on the matter.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

What sins did she commit? Remember the Holy of Holies, a place so holy, God said only the Chief Priest could go in there. Now, the Savior is going to be born, the holiest person ever to set foot upon the earth, and God is now going to do a complete 180 and have a sinner bear him into this world? That is insane. No! God would absolve Mary of all sin so she could bear the "holiest of holies" into this world.

if God could allow Jesus to be born into a sinful world then what makes you think he can let him be born from a sinful woman?

Your logic is faulty, taking your logical conclusion forward, we would also have to conclude that God would have had to absolve this world in order for the Savior to be manifested into it, what's the difference between him being manifested in a sinful womb or in a sinful environment?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Those things are child's play. If we are guilty of idolatry, the top example would be our belief in his "Real Presence" in the Holy Eucharist. If we are wrong, we are in deep trouble with God. Now, if you folks are wrong, well, let's just say this denial will be devastating for you.

Look, when Jesus said "This is My body and this is My blood", He was in their presence. He did not mean it to be taken as being literally His body and blood, but that it typified His body and blood.

And your religion is replete with idolatry. Look at all the pictures we have posted. Bowing before a statute of Mary, praying before her. Kissing all those images of her and baby Jesus as if they were literally them. That IS idolatry.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Another falsehood. The christian's mother is Mother Jerusalem.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Look at this sister bowing before a statue of Mary.

 

[SovereignGrace]

FYI, after Jesus' birth, Mary lost her virginity to her husband Joseph. Intercourse never defiled her...her sin did. And intercourse betwixt a husband and his wife is not sin...does not defile them.

 

[JonC]

No, the wine and bread are the elements that contain the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. The grape juice and crackers are just that, they mean nothing but that in the non-orthodox faith traditions. So in the end, why bother?

The reason that we partake of the elements are, probably, something that will escape you because of your understanding of exactly what occurs. The elements are symbolic, but not merely so. It is communion, and a communion so serious that people died for taking it in an unworthy manner. But the Catholic sacrament is not, as one priest had put it, Roman paganism sanctified by God through the Church. It is merely paganism. Your practice is not of scripture but of the RCC. Some Catholics have been honest enough to acknowledge that, which places the difference where it belongs - the RCC or Scripture.

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