Mary was probably a nice person???

Really? And why would I want them to?

The Bible is quite clear that the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26-27) and Jesus Himself(Romans 8:34) are always interceding with God the Father on our behalf. If these two parts of the Godhead are interceding for us, why would we need anyone else to intercede. Can the Holy Spirit and Christ not do a good enough job? Is it not disrespectful to go around these Two and ask someone else to intercede with God? And just how do you expect them to intercede with God? Would they not first have to approach Christ and the Holy Spirit? Why would they go to that trouble when we are perfectly able to go to Christ and Holy Spirit ourselves? Do those in heaven not deserve their rest, that we would disturb them with our requests? Is their race not over?

 

Really? And why would I want them to?

The Bible is quite clear that the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26-27) and Jesus Himself(Romans 8:34) are always interceding with God the Father on our behalf. If these two parts of the Godhead are interceding for us, why would we need anyone else to intercede. Can the Holy Spirit and Christ not do a good enough job? Is it not disrespectful to go around these Two and ask someone else to intercede with God? And just how do you expect them to intercede with God? Would they not first have to approach Christ and the Holy Spirit? Why would they go to that trouble when we are perfectly able to go to Christ and Holy Spirit ourselves? Do those in heaven not deserve their rest, that we would disturb them with our requests? Is their race not over? </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know if you agree with your answer. You said:

Why would we need anyone else to intercede?

If this is true, then why do we pray (intercede)for each other? would you want someone else, like anyone here on earth, to pray for you? Or you pray for him/her? Look at your response and tell me that I am reading it wrong and that you beleive that people can intercede (pray) for each other.

If you believe that we can intercede for each other (like you pray for me or I pray for you), then the second question is: is it possible for souls that are in heaven to intercede for us?

Thanks
Armando

 

Of course we ask others to pray for us. The Bible tells us to pray for each other.

But we ask others for prayer using normal human-to-human communications, like speech, note, sign language, etc.. We don't pray to them! If we are praying, we are already communicating directly with God.

Prayers are directed to the one who can answer, God. He knows what we are going to ask before we do. Middle-men (and women), whether in heaven or on earth are not necessary!

 

Ah, but can you give me any scripture reference where one of the apostles prayed(or asked if you prefer) someone who was already dead to intercede with God on their behalf.

Lets go back futher, did any of the prophets pray to another prophet for intercession?

Further than that, did Solomon pray to David? What about Jacob, did he pray to Abraham?

Not that I can find in my Bible. This is a tradition of man not of God.

So, if a church doesn't offer a liturgy it doesn't have any other way of worshiping God? Please tell me I have misunderstood you! I find this idea rather offensive. Prayer is just one way I worship God. I consider Bible study, praise and music, gathering with other Christians for the purpose of learning and edification and just simply being quiet in the presence of God to also be ways of worship.

As far as liturgies goes I want scriptural support for the idea that worship services must suscribe to the very same ritual over and over again. "Vain repetitions" are for pagans, not Christians.(Matt 6:7)

 

Since Fr. TP says that he already responded to the pile of unnanswered questions directed to his posts -- I thought I would remind him of this unnanswered post.

From http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/2987/3.html#000036

This is another either-or fallacy. Either you worship at Mary's altars, pray to the dead, call her the queen of heaven and "allpowerful like Christ" and co-redemptrix with Christ, Mother of God -- OR you think "Mary is a mean person".

The fallacy you are trying leaves No reasonable ground to choose. You leave it as does the RCC with Mary's God title -- as a choice between two errors.

Odd that it was not EVER used by NT authors or any NT saints. Since you only leave them with "either OR choices" you would have to conclude that by refusing to use the title THEY did not believe Christ was God!

You insist that is the only "alternative" to the title - so you are stuck in that case.

I am not sure that some of the reformer were able to see the problem with mariolotry -- however it is clear that many who lost their lives to the RC inquisitors - were doing so out of refusal to worship Mary.

The problem with refusal to engage in mariolotry is NOT that non-Catholics are "soooo afraid to appear Catholic" that this is their only reason for avoiding the error of mariolotry. You have to look at the reasons actually give here and on the other thread to "see" why we do refuse the error of mariolotry. Making reasons up for us - is not a compelling form of discussion.
</font>[/QUOTE]In Christ,

Bob

 

Not that I'm denying your conclusion but can you please explain your logic behind it. I'm not following based on the scripture you have provided. </font>[/QUOTE]if you find worship but no prays in heaven how could mary pray for us?

 

In fact God strictly forbids communion with the dead! (See Isaiah 8).

In Christ,

Bob

 

I have a word for the "Mother of God" as you so put it.

Try this on for size...........SINNER!
That is a good word for her.

People hold Mary up to be untouchable. Was she special? Yes. She gave birth to God in human form. But she was also just like any of us, a sinner who also needed a Savior for her soul.
She was not without sin and she is not God so why do people worship her more that God himself?

The Bible clearly teaches "Thou shalt have no Gods before me". Do not idol worship.

 

Topic of thread:

Maybe she was a nice person. So what. There's lots of nice persons, and it was that way in her generation. Put more accurately, "Was she a good person?"
The Biblical answer:

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mary may have been a nice person, but she wasn't a good person. Only God is good.
DHK

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

The people on this board are VERY afraid of Mary. Perhaps we could a agree on the statement "Mary was probably a nice person?". Is that okay, or are you going to tell me how mean she was.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tam says HOGWASH If there is one thing in this world I am NOT afraid of, it's Mary!!

Bless your heart TP! Where in the world did you get an idea like that?

Of course Mary was a vey nice person, and she is the Mother of Jesus, but to pray to her, or ask her to speak to her son on my behalf is ludicrus!!

Jesus said we were to pray to the Father in His name!!



Peace,

Tam

 

We are? I don't think anyone here is afraid of Mary. As a Baptist, we don't pray to Mary therefore we don't put her on a pedastal. Sure Mary was Jesus's mother, but to me she's just another interesting charecter in the Bible.

 

Wow...I guess this about sums it up. Of all the women that have every lived, God chose to become incarnate through the womb of the Virgin Mary--and she's merely "just another interesting character in the Bible"?? Incredible. Sounds like a pretty small view of Jesus if you ask me.

 

Peace of Christ to everyone.

I find it interesting that a large majority here are putting their own human limits on God.

God created Eve without sin, yet no one ever accused her of being created a goddess. However, Eve used her free will and she sinned.

So, why is it impossible to think that God would have chosen to create Mary without sin? All life is given from God. A husband and wife do not create a child without God, for God is over all. Isn't it possible that God choose to apply the merits of Christ sacrafice to Mary at the time of her conception?

IMHO, it seems a little hypocritical to say, "Nothing is impossible for God" in one breath and then on the other say, "It's impossible for Mary to have been created without sin."

 

Sorry. To me Mary isn't anymore important than Moses or Noah, etc... They were all wonderful people that had incredible interactions with God but I think praying to Mary is putting her up there with Jesus.

 

Neither Moses nor Noah gave God something He didn't alreay have and that was a human nature. Think about it--the God of the Universe Who created time and space chose to humble Himself and take on our humanity, and He did this through Mary. If you can't see how how this makes Mary unique (though, of course still, a created being) among all the saints, then I don't know what else to say, other than your Christology seems suspiciously Nestorian.

Also, honoring Mary (and asking for her intercessions) is not putting her on the same level as Christ. (When you ask your friends to intercede for you, are you thereby putting them on Christ's level?) Honoring Mary and the saints is simply honoring those whom God has honored.