Mary

[Adonia]

No, Jesus as our intercessor speaks on behalf of the saved against the accusations of the devil. He is the ONLY one who can do that. "For there is one God and there is ONE intercessor between God and man and that is Jesus Christ." It's in 1 Timothy.

ONE intercessor.

Praying for someone, such as "Harry" is not you and I coming before God and acting on their behalf as a savior against the devil's accusations. You and I have sin. We cannot do that. But we can and should and are told to pray for people. God listens.

We should lift people up in prayer. Jesus, the intercessor, can defeat the devil's lies and covers our sins with his blood so that they do not speak against us like the devil does.

Praying for people and being a holy intercessor who can abolish the devil's lies are two entirely things.

No Catholic alive believes that there is any intercessor before God for our sins except Jesus Christ. His death and resurrection is the focal point of our worship service.

Praying for someone, such as "Harry" is not you and I coming before God and acting on their behalf as a savior against the devil's accusations.

I never said that, but when you pray for someone else you are indeed acting as a mediator. You are thinking that the other guy's prayer is somehow going to help, so asking Joe from church or a saint in heaven, both of whom are alive in Christ is one and the same to me. So stop trying to nitpick between the two. Just go to God yourself and leave Joe out of it.

 

[kyredneck]

How do you know?

It certainly is not from the Catholic Catechism that you are apparently slave to.

This is just what you have come to believe, how you have interpreted such passages, or how you have been taught what they mean.

It comes from many years of exercising my "Right To Private Judgement", a huge protest from the Reformation of the tyranny of Rome.

27 And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him. 1 John 2

Is Mary the new Eve? Or the real live Ark of the Covenant in human form? The similarities are extraordinary.

No. Mary was simply the vessel God used to bring His Son into this time realm.

 

[Adonia]

It is the adoration of Mary which is so offensive to Baptists.
While Baptist love Mary as the mother of our Lord's humanity she, a created being, is in no wise the Mother of God.
Baptists also avoid the use of statues in prayer, prayers to the departed and anything which resembles "worship" of Mary.

That is what is offensive, these other things do not excuse the error.

HankD

I know and that is the difference in how we look at these things. To me an icon or a statue of Mary or some saint is merely a representation of the person, just like a picture of a loved one. Perhaps there is some good level that can be gotten to regarding this. Some look at Mother Mary as a mere footnote, a minor player in the whole thing, while others have raised her to too high a level.

 

[Adonia]

It certainly is not from the Catholic Catechism that you are apparently slave to.

Not at all. The Catechism is simply a book that expounds on everything the Catholic Church believes and teaches on everything from the Scriptures to things that that can occur in life from war to handling money. Their viewpoint is as valid as the teaching you receive from your pastor, elder or particular faith tradition. The Baptist Church could write their own catechism/manual expounding on it's belief's and practices.

No. Mary was simply the vessel God used to bring His Son into this time realm.

She sure seems to get a lot of mention in the Scriptures for just being "a vessel". From Jesus's birth, throughout His ministry, and right up to His crucifixion she was there.

 

[kyredneck]

She sure seems to get a lot of mention in the Scriptures

Leaving the gospel accounts (which even there she occupies little space), give 'all the mentions' of Mary in the doctrinal accounts of the epistles. Off the cuff, she's not even mentioned. In no way is she elevated to the position 'you people' have placed her.

 

[David Kent]

Not at all. The Catechism is simply a book that expounds on everything the Catholic Church believes and teaches on everything from the Scriptures to things that that can occur in life from war to handling money. Their viewpoint is as valid as the teaching you receive from your pastor, elder or particular faith tradition. The Baptist Church could write their own catechism/manual expounding on it's belief's and practices.
She sure seems to get a lot of mention in the Scriptures for just being "a vessel". From Jesus's birth, throughout His ministry, and right up to His crucifixion she was there.

• Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
• Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I never said that, but when you pray for someone else you are indeed acting as a mediator. You are thinking that the other guy's prayer is somehow going to help, so asking Joe from church or a saint in heaven, both of whom are alive in Christ is one and the same to me. So stop trying to nitpick between the two. Just go to God yourself and leave Joe out of it.

I don't feel I am nitpicking between the two.

• I have a friend, Eddie, who is very sick with cancer. I pray for him. I pray for his healing, his strength, and his wife/family. I do not intercess for his sins. The Bible says there is ONE intercessor. You are saying there are several.
• When Jesus intercesses for Eddie and his sins, he is combating the incessant accusations of the devil. The Bible says several times that Jesus is our intercessor, not just in the passage I gave you above. Jesus is settling the argument, setting the case, and banging the gavel, if you will, on the battle of the Devil vs. Eddie. I CAN'T DO THAT for Eddie. You can't. Mary can't. Only Jesus can.

These two scenarios aren't a case of nit-picking. They are light years apart.

 

[Adonia]

Leaving the gospel accounts (which even there she occupies little space), give 'all the mentions' of Mary in the doctrinal accounts of the epistles. Off the cuff, she's not even mentioned. In no way is she elevated to the position 'you people' have placed her.

Oh I see, so the Mother of God Incarnate is just another "vessel" to be discarded and that she should be shown no great respect or elevation for her part in the salvation of all mankind. Your comment that "off the cuff she's not even mentioned" is not reflected in my bible, nor yours. Let's see, off the cuff she is mentioned in the birth narrative, presenting Jesus in the temple, finding Jesus after He was "lost", the first miracle narrative at Cana, in the upper room praying with the Apostles, and last but not least at the foot of the Cross. Not bad considering she was just a bit player according to you folks.

 

[David Kent]

Oh I see, so the Mother of God Incarnate is just another "vessel" to be discarded and that she should be shown no great respect or elevation for her part in the salvation of all mankind. Your comment that "off the cuff she's not even mentioned" is not reflected in my bible, nor yours. Let's see, off the cuff she is mentioned in the birth narrative, presenting Jesus in the temple, finding Jesus after He was "lost", the first miracle narrative at Cana, in the upper room praying with the Apostles, and last but not least at the foot of the Cross. Not bad considering she was just a bit player according to you folks.

Forty days after the birth of Jesus, Mary had to present herself at the temple to be purified. She was not the mother of God, but the mother of Jesus. She had no part in our salvation, the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and his resurrection are the only means of salvation for those who put their trust in him. There is no salvation in any other.

• Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Oh I see, so the Mother of God Incarnate is just another "vessel" to be discarded and that she should be shown no great respect or elevation for her part in the salvation of all mankind. Your comment that "off the cuff she's not even mentioned" is not reflected in my bible, nor yours. Let's see, off the cuff she is mentioned in the birth narrative, presenting Jesus in the temple, finding Jesus after He was "lost", the first miracle narrative at Cana, in the upper room praying with the Apostles, and last but not least at the foot of the Cross. Not bad considering she was just a bit player according to you folks.

Yes, Mary was just an ordinary vessel like you and me, but she was used in a supernatural way. God's supernatural use of her did not change her status as ordinary vessel.

Lots of ordinary vessels in the Bible were used supernaturally of God: God used Peter's shadow to heal people, God used Moses' arms to part the Red Sea, God supernaturally defied natural law and transported Philipp from once place to the Ethiopian eunuch, God used Sarah, a woman whose womb was dead and ability to nurse a baby over by natural law and whose husband, Abraham - according to Hebrews - could not even be helped by Viagra, and he supernaturally used this couple's body to bring Isaac into the world, and God used Mary to supernaturally bring Jesus into the world.

All of these people were vessels used by God. None of these people had ANYTHING to do with the salvation of mankind.

Mary is NOT to prayed to for her being the mother of Jesus. She had absolute NO say in it, no power in it, and no authority even over her own body.

I admire her. I LOVE reading about her and teaching others about her. I do not revere her, pray to her, not believe that she had anything to do with my salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Oh I see, so the Mother of God Incarnate is just another "vessel" to be discarded and that she should be shown no great respect or elevation for her part in the salvation of all mankind. Your comment that "off the cuff she's not even mentioned" is not reflected in my bible, nor yours. Let's see, off the cuff she is mentioned in the birth narrative, presenting Jesus in the temple, finding Jesus after He was "lost", the first miracle narrative at Cana, in the upper room praying with the Apostles, and last but not least at the foot of the Cross. Not bad considering she was just a bit player according to you folks.

Mary was the very same as all of us, a sinner, who needed Jesus to save her from her sins, and while there is much to commend about her, NOTHING indicates us venerate and borderline worship her as the RCC teaches!

 

[Matt Janes]

Telling me to neglect the rosary is like telling a diabetic not to take insulin. After all, if a diabetic has God, what need is there for insulin, why don't they just rely on God Alone?

The rosary has been the remedy for my ills. That is the method by which God chose to bring me healing. To neglect God's healing remedy, will bring me disaster. I've seen it happen.

 

[Yeshua1]

Telling me to neglect the rosary is like telling a diabetic not to take insulin. After all, if a diabetic has God, what need is there for insulin, why don't they just rely on God Alone?

The rosary has been the remedy for my ills. That is the method by which God chose to bring me healing. To neglect God's healing remedy, will bring me disaster. I've seen it happen.

You do not need the beads, as you have all spiritual blessings in Jesus.Period.

 

[HankD]

Telling me to neglect the rosary is like telling a diabetic not to take insulin. After all, if a diabetic has God, what need is there for insulin, why don't they just rely on God Alone?

The rosary has been the remedy for my ills. That is the method by which God chose to bring me healing. To neglect God's healing remedy, will bring me disaster. I've seen it happen.

It was your faith in God, not the rosary.

HankD

 

[Adonia]

You do not need the beads, as you have all spiritual blessings in Jesus.Period.

The remedy is prayer to God, which is all the rosary is. You do pray yourself, don't you?

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh I see, so the Mother of God Incarnate is just another "vessel" to be discarded and that she should be shown no great respect or elevation for her part in the salvation of all mankind.

She played no part in the salvation of man. Having given birth the Christ does not equal playing a part. Should we also say the Roman soldiers who put Jesus on the cross played a part in the salvation of all mankind? Dishing out credit for this is wrongheaded and severely misguided.

 

[thatbrian]

I believe the Blessed Mother's intercession saved my life

Mary might have kept you from jumping if she were of any use as a savior. She is not, as you found out when your body discovered the ground and proved the reality of gravity.


Cast your deadly “doing” down—
Down at Jesus’ feet;
Stand in Him, in Him alone,
Gloriously complete.

- It is Finished (James Proctor)

 

[Scarlett O.]

The remedy is prayer to God, which is all the rosary is. You do pray yourself, don't you?

Dear Sister,

Please be intellectually honest. The rosary is not a prayer to God. It is a prayer and meditation to and about Mary and the "mysteries". The mysteries contain gross unBiblical statements.

Anything that:

• prays to another other than God
• contains recitations that are unBiblical
• rotely and repetitively the Lord's Prayer along with these unBiblical things

is NOT a prayer to God. I'm sorry but it just is not so.

PART I: THE ROSARY

1. Make the Sign of the Cross and say the "Apostles' Creed."
2. Say the "Our Father."
3. Say three "Hail Marys."
4. Say the "Glory be to the Father."
5. Announce the First Mystery; then say the "Our Father."
6. Say ten "Hail Marys," while meditating on the Mystery.
7. Say the "Glory be to the Father."
8. Announce the Second Mystery; then say the "Our Father." Repeat 6 and 7 and continue with Third, Fourth and Fifth Mysteries in the same manner.

PART II: AFTER THE ROSARY

HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Let us pray. O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.

PART III: FALSE TEACHINGS IN THE "MYSTERIES"

• Mary is troubled for she has made a vow of virginity.
• Mary is not subject to the law of purification, yet in humility she submits to it.
• Mary dies, not of bodily infirmity, but is wholly overcome in a rapture of divine love.
• Her body as well as her soul is taken up into heaven.
• After her burial the apostles go to the tomb and find only fragrant lilies.
• Jesus does not permit the sinless body of His Mother to decay in the grave.
• Corruption of the body is an effect of original sin from which Mary is totally exempted.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 5 PM Pacific.

 

[Yeshua1]

The remedy is prayer to God, which is all the rosary is. You do pray yourself, don't you?

Yes, to tha Father directly, in name of Jesus, who needs a middleman such as mary or saints?