"Maybe its real ,and I'm not Chosen "

[AustinC]

Chosen and elected for what ? To do what?

To be children of the promise who are ambassadors of reconciliation. Are you clueless about this truth?

 

[MB]

Paul and Peter didn't write to a synagogue. They wrote to the chosen and elect who were mostly gentiles. The Bible shows you to be wrong.

Everything you place o the board is nonsense As I should say you don't know what you are talking about.
MB

 

[MB]

ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; from G1586; select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.

• [Mat 22:14 NASB] 14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."[G1588]
• [Mat 24:22, 24, 31 NASB] 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect[G1588] those days will be cut short. ... 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[G1588] ... 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
• [Mar 13:20, 22, 27 NASB] 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect,[G1588] whom He chose, He shortened the days. ... 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.[G1588] ... 27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
• [Luk 18:7 NASB] 7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect[G1588] who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
• [Luk 23:35 NASB] 35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen[G1588] One."[G1588]
• [Rom 8:33 NASB] 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect?[G1588] God is the one who justifies;
• [Rom 16:13 NASB] 13 Greet Rufus, a choice[G1588] man[G1588] in the Lord, also his mother and mine.
• [Col 3:12 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen[G1588] of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
• [1Ti 5:21 NASB] 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of [His] chosen[G1588] angels, to maintain these [principles] without bias, doing nothing in a [spirit of] partiality.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen,[G1588] so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [Tit 1:1 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen[G1588] of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
• [1Pe 1:1 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen[G1588]
• [1Pe 2:4, 6, 9 NASB] 4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice[G1588] and precious in the sight of God, ... 6 For [this] is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE[G1588] STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER [stone,] AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." ... 9 But you are A CHOSEN[G1588] RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
• [2Jo 1:1, 13 NASB] 1 The elder to the chosen[G1588] lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, ... 13 The children of your chosen[G1588] sister greet you.
• [Rev 17:14 NASB] 14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him [are the] called and chosen[G1588] and faithful."

. Not even one verse says Gentiles are elect. Your just building straw men .
MB

 

[AustinC]

Everything you place o the board is out of text. As I should say you don't know what you are talking about.
MB

You are stating hyperbole with no substance. Do we need to revisit all of John 12 so you can walk through and see why your interpretation of one sentence is inaccurate?

 

[MB]

Paul and Peter didn't write to a synagogue. They wrote to the chosen and elect who were mostly gentiles. The Bible shows you to be wrong.

Wrong again. You debate like a JW
MB

 

[AustinC]

Wrong again. You debate like a JW
MB

Again with the hyperbole and no substance. It seems you have no desire to honestly observe John 12. So be it.

 

[MB]

To be children of the promise who are ambassadors of reconciliation. Are you clueless about this truth?

Calvinist are not ambassadors of reconciliation because you do not preach the gospel leading people to Christ, You don't believe it would do any good. You believe all that will be saved will be saved no matter whether they hear the gospel or not. No matter whether they resist or not. God just zaps them with saving grace.
By the way if you are elect Prove it.
MB

 

[Dave G]

While in Jail and preaching there he never once referred to anyone as elect.

The Philippian jailer was a Gentile...
Philippi is in Greece.
So was Lydia, a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira...which is in present day Turkey.

Read Acts of the Apostles 16, MB.
It's all there.

Now for the important part...
He tells the believers at Philippi, this valuable truth:

" being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:" ( Philippians 1:6 ).

This tells me that God began a good work in them, and will perform that work until the day of Christ.
When the Lord starts something, He finishes it.
I also notice that it does not say that God began the work, and we helped Him.

Reading further, I see this:

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).

Look at it carefully, MB.
It clearly says that it was given to them to believe.

Also know that anything that is given to someone makes what is given, a gift ( see Romans 6:23 ).
Therefore, if the gift is not given, it cannot be received.
Please see John 1:11-13 for who received God's gift, and why.

So...
Being that it's given by someone in the behalf of Christ, to believe on Christ,
Then there is only one more thing that must be answered...

Who gave it to them?

 

[MB]

Why debate with you any longer. I'd rather die than be a Calvinist.
MB

 

[Dave G]

Calvinist are not ambassadors of reconciliation because you do not preach the gospel leading people to Christ, You don't believe it would do any good.

Respectfully, MB,
it seems you have not been believing what many of the "Calvinists" on this forum have been telling you:

1) Speaking for myself, I'm a Christian ( not a "Calvinist" ), one of Christ's sheep who have believed on Him for the forgiveness of my sins.
I don't teach anything other than what the Lord Jesus, Peter and Paul explicitly wrote.

2) Those you call "Calvinists" do not preach that people can "get saved" by an act of their will.
They preach God's grace to sinners, and whosoever believes on Him will be saved.

See 1 Corinthians 15:1-6 for what the Gospel, at its core, actually is.

We believe that it does exactly what it is intended to do...
Notify the children of God of their gift of eternal life.

We preach Christ crucified for sinners, sir,
and I maintain that anyone who is truly a preacher of God's Gospel will never preach anything else to the masses.

After that, we preach the contents of the epistles to those who have believed and been baptized.

 

[Dave G]

You believe all that will be saved will be saved no matter whether they hear the gospel or not.

Time and again I see this sort of comment on this forum,
and it sets me back me every time I read it, MB.

If you please...

I ask that you lay aside this charge,
and your accusations aimed at those that you call "Calvinists" , of teaching that people will be saved apart from God's Gospel.
It is simply not true, sir, and it never was.

The Gospel is God's message of salvation, and preaching is His means.
Please see Romans 10 and 1 Corinthians 1:21.

It is literally aimed at the whosoever believeth.

No matter whether they resist or not.

According to God's word ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18 and various Psalms ), we resist His words quite well.
That's why we need His help to even listen to them without rejecting them out of habit.

God just zaps them with saving grace.

Amazing, isn't it?
That's why John Newton, a "Calvinist", wrote probably the most well-known hymn in existence...

Amazing Grace.

By the way if you are elect Prove it.

Are you saying that you're not one of the elect?
But...

You're one of the "whosoever believeth" ( John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:40, John 11:25-27 ), are you not?
If so, then you are, indeed, one of God's elect, MB...

And no matter how much you fight it,
your heavenly Father has quite literally dragged you into a relationship with Him and His Son for all of eternity.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinist are not ambassadors of reconciliation because you do not preach the gospel leading people to Christ, You don't believe it would do any good. You believe all that will be saved will be saved no matter whether they hear the gospel or not. No matter whether they resist or not. God just zaps them with saving grace.

Another insightful explanation of what Calvinists believe by a non-Calvinist who is busy working his way into heaven by earning God’s love. (One tired old strawman deserves another to keep it company.)

 

[Quantrill]

Let us both look at that a little closer:

" Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. " ( Galatians 4:3-6 ).

Verse 3 tells me that believers, when they were yet children, were in bondage to the elements of the world.
Verse 4: God sent forth His Son in the fullness of time. His Son, made of a woman ( Mary ), and made under the Law ( He came unto His own, Israel, who were under the Law of Moses at that time ).

Verse 5: His Son was sent forth to redeem them that were under the Law, so that they might receive the adoption of sons ( see Ephesians 1:5, they were predestinated to it ).
Verse 6: Because believers ARE ( not "will be" ) His sons ( children ), God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son ( the Holy Spirit ) into their hearts.

See Ephesians 2:1-10, as to me, it parallels this same thing, in many of the details.

Even when we ( God's children ) were without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly...His children ( Romans 5:6 ).
When they were yet enemies, they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ).
If they were lost, then they would have never treated the preaching of the cross as anything other than foolishness...
Which is what I see 1 Corinthians 1:18 developing.


That's what I see when I put all the pieces together;
and because of that, I conclude that God's children were not saved at belief, but at the point that the Lord made the decision to save them ( Ephesians 1:4-5 )…
Before the foundation of the world.

Election is God's decision to save.
His love was set on those He decided to save long before they were ever born.
Salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, and by no man's efforts.
Known from the beginning were all His works, and they have an inheritance prepared for them from the foundation of the world...

Eternal life, which is to know God and His Son.

(Gal. 3:23) Paul is referencing 'we Jews'. "we were kept under the law'.

(Gal. 3:24) Paul is referencing Jews. "the law was our schoolmaster...that we might be justified by faith"

(Gal. 3:25) Paul is referencing Jews. "after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

(Gal. 3:26-29) Paul is referencing Gentiles. "For ye are all the children of god by faith in Christ Jesus"

(Gal. 4:1-2) Paul is referencing both Jew and Gentile. "the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant.

(Gal. 4:3-5) Paul is referencing Jews under the law. "when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world."

(Gal. 4:6) Paul is referencing Gentile believers. "because ye are sons".

Of course believers are children/sons of God. But, until they believe, they are not saved. They are elect, yes. They will be saved, yes. But until they exercise faith in Christ, they are lost.

They were chosen before the foundation of the world. The are not saved till they exercise faith in Christ.

Concerning 'reconciliation' God reconciled the whole world to Himself. (2 Cor. 5:19) That doesn't make the whole world saved.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree. Election assures who will be saved. Salvation of that one to be saved begins with their faith in Christ.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yet there is not one Gentile ever called elect in scripture. There is no place where God Him self elects Gentiles. Election is not insurance that any one will be saved.
MB

All who are saved are elect. Including Gentiles. (Col. 3:12)

Election is most surely assurance that on will be saved.

Quantrill

 

[MB]

All who are saved are elect. Including Gentiles. (Col. 3:12)

Election is most surely assurance that on will be saved.

Quantrill

Can you prove your elect? Col 3:12 says nothing about election
MB

 

[Dave G]

Can you prove your elect?

Who is this letter written to, MB?
" to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." ( Romans 1:7 ).

Who is described here?
" [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." ( Romans 8:1 ).


In the same chapter, referring to the very same people, Paul tells us:

" What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [It is] God that justifieth" ( Romans 8:31-33 ).

With these things in mind, do you not see that all believers in Jesus Christ are God's elect?

 

[Salty]

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