Medication vs 'Self" medicating

[freeatlast]

Would you mind defining, in detail please, what possible agregious sins a little two or three year old boy could have possibly committed in his short life that would have caused him to be stricken with ADD?

How about that little four year old girl who washes and washes her hands? Since I don't think she's read Lady Hamlet's soliloquy. "out damn spot", what horrible sin has she committed that God would send OCD her way?

Oh, and how about the person who simply loses his or her temper because someone on the Baptist Board keeps throwing stones at them? Jesus lost his temper at the money changers....did he have unconfessed sin in his life?

I am not advocating drugs as a solution to sin. Never have, never will. I do advocate drugs as a solution to illness. When I have bronchitis I use my inhaler...I'm sick. When I had the shingles I took those blue horse pills faithfully....the itch was terrible and I wanted them gone! I don't get bronchitis, or I didn't get the shingles because of sin in my life. I got them because of SIN IN THE WORLD! It's the same with other illnesses, mental to be specific. Adam fell from grace and sin entered the picture. Mankind has suffered since. We can only treat the symptoms with medication. Only God can provide the cure for sin. However, let me stress here....confessing sin will not cure someone of ADD, OCD, or anything else. God may, or may not, cure someone. It's no different than praying to be cured of cancer.

You have bought the lie of the world. ADD is not an illness. Add is a description of sin that already is present. It used to be called the terrible 2's now it is billed as a medical problem. The child needs to be taught how to deal with indwelling sin. Parents today want the easy way out to excuse them from doing their job. Just give the child a pill and relax. It is called lazy parenting. Train them up in the way they should go is God's way.

 

[agedman]

Only confession and forsaking sin is of God. Masking sin is sin as it is impossible to confess and forsake if a person continues to hold on to the sin. Drugs only mask sin, confession and forsaking is the only biblical way to be healed of the sin.

A few points that seem to be repeated.

First - No one has posted in opposition to confessing and forsaking.

Second - No one has posted in support of masking sin.

Third - You have not proven that all drugs "only" mask sin.

Fourth - No one has posted that confessing and forsaking is NOT the only biblical way to be healed of sin.

Fifth - You are appointing "sin" to medical illness. Yet, in your own post have regarded medical help for severely afflicted and life threatening conditions are appropriate.

Would you then list what medical condition(s) from the list in the OP that you consider sin?

 

[Arbo]

I am saying that there is only one way to overcome sin according to the bible. That is confession and forsaking it.

As I understand Scripture, I agree. Why do you equate the symptoms of all or most mental illnesses/disorders with sin? You keep saying it's in the Bible, but if you have cited references I've not been able to find the post in which you do. Before you tell me to look again, I have.

Please explain with Scripture why you think all mental illnesses and disorders are based on the sufferer's sin.

I asked you this in another thread and was ignored. I hope you can give a Biblical answer, since that is what you keep claiming to have.

 

[freeatlast]

A few points that seem to be repeated.

First - No one has posted in opposition to confessing and forsaking.

Second - No one has posted in support of masking sin.

Third - You have not proven that all drugs "only" mask sin.

Fourth - No one has posted that confessing and forsaking is NOT the only biblical way to be healed of sin.

Fifth - You are appointing "sin" to medical illness. Yet, in your own post have regarded medical help for severely afflicted and life threatening conditions are appropriate.

Would you then list what medical condition(s) from the list in the OP that you consider sin?

I have already done those things you just reject them. Drugs mask sin, confession and forsaking heals from sin.

 

[Amy.G]

...... confession and forsaking heals from sin.

Well it hasn't healed you.

 

[freeatlast]

As I understand Scripture, I agree. Why do you equate the symptoms of all or most mental illnesses/disorders with sin? You keep saying it's in the Bible, but if you have cited references I've not been able to find the post in which you do. Before you tell me to look again, I have.

Please explain with Scripture why you think all mental illnesses and disorders are based on the sufferer's sin.

I asked you this in another thread and was ignored. I hope you can give a Biblical answer, since that is what you keep claiming to have.

Are outbursts of anger, slander, rage, sin acdcording to scripture?

 

[freeatlast]

Well it hasn't healed you.

God bless.

 

[agedman]

You have bought the lie of the world. ADD is not an illness. Add is a description of sin that already is present. It used to be called the terrible 2's now it is billed as a medical problem. The child needs to be taught how to deal with indwelling sin. Parents today want the easy way out to excuse them from doing their job. Just give the child a pill and relax. It is called lazy parenting. Train them up in the way they should go is God's way.

Oh, my!!!!!

You do not know what you are posting about.

The "terrible 2's" were resolved by maturation. ADD is not "fixed" by growth in the physical, spiritual, or any other growth.

It is a disorder of the brain in which certain chemicals are not in sufficient quantity and/or quality to allow the thinking process to go uninterrupted.

ADD may or may not be accompanied by hyper activity.

A child may be hyper active without being ADD - but that overly active child can be channeled into activities and "school" behavior patterns because they have no lack of focus.

The ADD child has NO control over their ability to focus as normal children may and do. Try as they might is is not possible; their brain is not providing the appropriate levels to regulate the synapse.

Perhaps it is best to give you a link to read for yourself. Click here

Please read past the first line.

 

[freeatlast]

Oh, my!!!!!

You do not know what you are posting about.

The "terrible 2's" were resolved by maturation. ADD is not "fixed" by growth in the physical, spiritual, or any other growth.

It is a disorder of the brain in which certain chemicals are not in sufficient quantity and/or quality to allow the thinking process to go uninterrupted.

ADD may or may not be accompanied by hyper activity.

A child may be hyper active without being ADD - but that overly active child can be channeled into activities and "school" behavior patterns because they have no lack of focus.

The ADD child has NO control over their ability to focus as normal children may and do. Try as they might is is not possible; their brain is not providing the appropriate levels to regulate the synapse.

Perhaps it is best to give you a link to read for yourself. Click here

Please read past the first line.

That is the common line the world gives to get the drugs, but none of that is true. There is no scientific proof of a chemical imbalance causing sin. There is absolute proof that sin is from within the person according to the bible.. The truth is that sin and rebellion is being exercised by the person and drugs are used to mask the sin. Confession and forsaking is the only cure.

 

[agedman]

Are outbursts of anger, slander, rage, sin acdcording to scripture?

Did Christ have such outbursts?

Does God have such outbursts?

Both Christ and God are evidenced in Scripture as showing anger and rage. The Scriptures state "Be angry and sin not..."

Anger and rage in their own state are not sinful - that is why Paul used "and sin not..."

Slander is a totally different matter and is a sin. Not to be confused with Paul getting told of the wayward believers in the assembly.

 

[Arbo]

Are outbursts of anger, slander, rage, sin acdcording to scripture?

Not all mental issues manifest themselves in these ways.

Scripture please, if you have it. If not, you are drawing conclusions that are extrabiblical. To claim them to be in Scripture, while knowing they are not would be sin.

 

[DiamondLady]

You have bought the lie of the world. ADD is not an illness. Add is a description of sin that already is present. It used to be called the terrible 2's now it is billed as a medical problem. The child needs to be taught how to deal with indwelling sin. Parents today want the easy way out to excuse them from doing their job. Just give the child a pill and relax. It is called lazy parenting. Train them up in the way they should go is God's way.

As a parent and retired teacher believe me I know the difference between a child suffering from the "terrible 2's" and a child who has ADD. ADD is definitely not an "illness" like bronchitis or cancer, but it is a problem in the brain where the brain does not function properly. It is not caused by sin, nor by lazy parenting. It's clear you've never had a child who has ADD or you would realize how utterly stupid that statement is. Parents with ADD children would LOVE to have a lazy moment in a day!!! Even with medication children with ADD, while it does help them to focus, learn and retain, does not medicate them into a stupor. They're still active, healthy little boys and girls.

Mental disorders are simply that...a disorder caused by a defect in the structure of the brain. It's no different than a child who is born with a defect in their tibia which causes them to need a leg amputated. It's no different from a child born with a chromosonal defect which causes Downs Syndrome. They're not caused from unconfessed sin either.

 

[Arbo]

Did Christ have such outbursts?

Does God have such outbursts?

Both Christ and God are evidenced in Scripture as showing anger and rage. The Scriptures state "Be angry and sin not..."

Anger and rage in their own state are not sinful - that is why Paul used "and sin not..."

Slander is a totally different matter and is a sin. Not to be confused with Paul getting told of the wayward believers in the assembly.

Agedman- Good points. Had not occurred to me. Thanks.

 

[freeatlast]

Did Christ have such outbursts?

Does God have such outbursts?

Both Christ and God are evidenced in Scripture as showing anger and rage. The Scriptures state "Be angry and sin not..."

Anger and rage in their own state are not sinful - that is why Paul used "and sin not..."

Slander is a totally different matter and is a sin. Not to be confused with Paul getting told of the wayward believers in the assembly.

No they did not. All outbursts of anger are sin according to scripture. James 1:20 says "For the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God". Drugs mask and confession and forsaking heals.

 

[freeatlast]

Agedman- Good points. Had not occurred to me. Thanks.

Here is what you had better believe instead of thanking someone who is leading you into sin.;

James 1:20 says "For the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God"

 

[agedman]

That is the common line the world gives to get the drugs, but none of that is true. There is no scientific proof of a chemical imbalance causing sin. There is absolute proof that sin is from within the person according to the bible.. The truth is that sin and rebellion is being exercised by the person and drugs are used to mask the sin. Confession and forsaking is the only cure.

You bring up matters that no one on this thread is in disagreement.

Sin is not the issue.

Chemical imbalance does not "cause sin" anymore than a broken tooth, or severe headache.

You have not shown how "drugs are used to mask the sin."

No one is in disagreement that confessing and forsaking is the only "cure" for sin.

HOWEVER - that is one of the problems.

NONE of the list posted in the OP has a known cure.

YOU have not shown that ANY of the conditions listed in the OP are sin nor by your confessing and forsaking that they can be cured.

 

[freeatlast]

As a parent and retired teacher believe me I know the difference between a child suffering from the "terrible 2's" and a child who has ADD. ADD is definitely not an "illness" like bronchitis or cancer, but it is a problem in the brain where the brain does not function properly. It is not caused by sin, nor by lazy parenting. It's clear you've never had a child who has ADD or you would realize how utterly stupid that statement is. Parents with ADD children would LOVE to have a lazy moment in a day!!! Even with medication children with ADD, while it does help them to focus, learn and retain, does not medicate them into a stupor. They're still active, healthy little boys and girls.

Mental disorders are simply that...a disorder caused by a defect in the structure of the brain. It's no different than a child who is born with a defect in their tibia which causes them to need a leg amputated. It's no different from a child born with a chromosonal defect which causes Downs Syndrome. They're not caused from unconfessed sin either.

As a believer in the bible I know the difference between false teaching and God's word. All bad behavior comes form sin, not a medical condition. Drugs mask, but confession and forsaking heals.

 

[freeatlast]

You bring up matters that no one on this thread is in disagreement.

Sin is not the issue.

Chemical imbalance does not "cause sin" anymore than a broken tooth, or severe headache.

You have not shown how "drugs are used to mask the sin."

No one is in disagreement that confessing and forsaking is the only "cure" for sin.

HOWEVER - that is one of the problems.

NONE of the list posted in the OP has a known cure.

YOU have not shown that ANY of the conditions listed in the OP are sin nor by your confessing and forsaking that they can be cured.

Yes sin is the issue. All wrong behavior is due to sin, not a medical condition. Drugs mask the sin, but confession and forsaking heals. The behavior issues in the OP all can be cured by confession and fosaking.

 

[agedman]

Here is what you had better believe instead of thanking someone who is leading you into sin.;

James 1:20 says "For the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God"

Inappropriate use of the Scriptures is no excuse.

Here is James in context:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholds himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
​

In context, it is talking about UNBRIDLED wrath - NOT what Paul states when he is using "Be angry but don't sin." That is bridled wrath.

 

[freeatlast]

Inappropriate use of the Scriptures is no excuse.

Here is James in context:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholds himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
​

In context, it is talking about UNBRIDLED wrath - NOT what Paul states when he is using "Be angry but don't sin." That is bridled wrath.

Outbursts of anger are not bridled wrath. To be angry and sin not means you do not All bad behavior is sin. Drugs cover the sin, but confession and forsaking heals.
Let all ...wrath and anger…be put away from you”. (Ephesians 4:31).
“Put off all these: anger, wrath”. (Colossians 3:8).
“The works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: ..wrath” (Galatians 5:19,20).

Likewise, James writes:
“Let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God”. (James 1:19,20).