Men and church

[SolaSaint]

Hi all,

I was listening to Bob Dutko the other day and he had a guy on that wrote a book concerning men and church. He was stating that church was too oriented towards women. He said that the music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other, kept men away from church. He gave a few examples of how making classes and worship service more masculine helped to attract men.

My question is, "Isn't making church more manly the same as the seeker sensitive stuff we've seen before. Isn't this just an attempt to make church fit the world?" I feel that if men aren't saved, they won't want to be in church. A truly saved man will want to be in church and help to influence the body of Christ. He will be salt and light and be an example to what a man of God is. This will attract other men of God and build the church. Yes we do have a problem with few men in church today as this author states, but it isn't because the church as pushed them away, it's because their hearts aren't right with God, IMO. How do you all feel about this?:wavey:

 

[Alive in Christ]

I was listening to Bob Dutko the other day and he had a guy on that wrote a book concerning men and church. He was stating that church was too oriented towards women. He said that the music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other, kept men away from church. He gave a few examples of how making classes and worship service more masculine helped to attract men.

I dont know who Bob Dutko is, but I think he is off on a rabbit trail that leads to nowhere.

I am a full blown 100% man and I think that "music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other" are all wonderful things to do.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I have no problem with music since my ministry in the church is singing, but I do have a problem with all the other personal stuff.

 

[Salty]

http://www.wmuz.com/

and here is the web for WMUZ

then click on hosts, then click on Bob; for his bio

 

[SaggyWoman]

Seeker Sensitive means:

* Doing services in English because the predominant language is English.

* Having air conditioning and/or heat because that is what we are accustomed to.

* Having an Elevator in the church because the old people have difficulty walking upstairs.

* Taking up an offering in a basket instead of a plate for who knows what reason. Or taking an offering in a box outside. Or at the front of the sanctuary.

* expecting the pastor to wear a suit coat and tie.

* and....

 

[Alive in Christ]

Both Bob Dutko links are the same...the radio station.

 

[Alive in Christ]

...But fortunetly there is "Google"....:thumbs:


http://toptenproofs.com/aboutbob.php

"BOB DUTKO is a leading voice today in the fearless defense of Christian truth, using logic, reason, science, history and factual evidence to disarm the critics and equip believers. Bob hosts the nationally syndicated talk show “Defending the Truth with Bob Dutko”, heard on radio stations nationwide. In addition, he hosts “The Bob Dutko Show”, Detroit's #1 Christian Talk Radio Show, heard daily from Noon—4:00 PM on 50,000 watt 103.5 FM - WMUZ. Bob is also the former National Press Secretary for Christian Coalition of America.

Bob has engaged in countless debates with the ACLU, national atheist groups, evolutionary scientists, Planned Parenthood, Muslim Scholars, homosexual groups, New Age experts, cult leaders and more. He has been quoted in newspapers throughout the country and appeared on various news, radio and television programs such as Christian Television Network and Inside Edition.

His Detroit based show, “The Bob Dutko Show” is heard throughout all of southeast Michigan, northwest Ohio and much on Ontario, Canada, as well as nationwide via live web streaming at www.wmuz.com. His nationally syndicated apologetics talk show, “Defending the Truth” airs on radio stations across the country making Bob one of the most listened to Christian Talk Show Hosts in America."

 

[Salty]

Both Bob Dutko links are the same...the radio station.

Sorry, about that, I "linked" the correct page, but it only recognized the home page.

 

[just-want-peace]

I dont know who Bob Dutko is, but I think he is off on a rabbit trail that leads to nowhere.

I am a full blown 100% man and I think that "music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other" are all wonderful things to do.

As to music, well I'm 73 and quite biased toward the old hymns. This is a personal choice, and I make no judgments re: the "Christian-ness" of CCM vs hymns, but modern Christian music just doesn't cut it for me. Like I said - personal choice.

However, as to the holding hands, getting in circles and confiding in each other, well, I'm 100% man also, and it totally turns me off.

If I have some concerns that I want others to join in prayer with me, I'll recruit my own "team".

I despise it when the pastor will want the congregation to "--break up into groups of 4 or 5, and each pray for these concerns we have talked about." Thankfully this happens only rarely at Wed night service, but if it were routine, I'd be conspicuous by my absence

I am not one to pray in public, IF the prayer is to be genuine.

 

[Marcia]

I was listening to Bob Dutko the other day and he had a guy on that wrote a book concerning men and church. He was stating that church was too oriented towards women. He said that the music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other, kept men away from church. He gave a few examples of how making classes and worship service more masculine helped to attract men.

I don't know who Bob Duko is, but as a woman, I don't like holding hands and getting in circles, and I especially don't like doing crafts (it seems that Christian women are supposed to like doing crafts for some reason). So I can sympathize with the men to a degree here.

My question is, "Isn't making church more manly the same as the seeker sensitive stuff we've seen before. Isn't this just an attempt to make church fit the world?" I feel that if men aren't saved, they won't want to be in church. A truly saved man will want to be in church and help to influence the body of Christ. He will be salt and light and be an example to what a man of God is. This will attract other men of God and build the church. Yes we do have a problem with few men in church today as this author states, but it isn't because the church as pushed them away, it's because their hearts aren't right with God, IMO. How do you all feel about this?

I tend to agree with you. I also think that part of the problem is that the teaching of biblical gender roles in the church is not being taught and/or followed, and that, in general, evangelicals are getting more touch-feely, and subjective mysticism has invaded.

 

[Amy.G]

However, as to the holding hands, getting in circles and confiding in each other, well, I'm 100% man also, and it totally turns me off.

If I have some concerns that I want others to join in prayer with me, I'll recruit my own "team".

I despise it when the pastor will want the congregation to "--break up into groups of 4 or 5, and each pray for these concerns we have talked about." Thankfully this happens only rarely at Wed night service, but if it were routine, I'd be conspicuous by my absence

I am not one to pray in public, IF the prayer is to be genuine.

I'm not a man, :tongue3:, but I have a problem with public prayer like this as well. It seems that so many like to pray this way that maybe there's something wrong with me. Maybe I'm not spiritual enough?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Prayer circles are just wonderful. :thumbs:

Nobody is obligated to share anything verbally if they dont want to. Only the ones who WANT to share...share.

The ones who had no prayer concerns pray for the ones who did. And usually there is a prayer for all "unspoken" concerns that anyone might have. Sometimes some spontaneous worship and praise will occur.

Its a beautiful thing. :1_grouphug:

There is nothing to fear at all concerning christian prayer circles.

Praise the Lord!

 

[Heiress]

ive never gone down to the altar to pray at my new church, nor have i volunteered to pray for a specific group. I am not a man, and the men have pray meetings before church, but i too believe that unless you are genuinely moved, i pray alone with God, not out in front of people

 

[Amy.G]

......but i too believe that unless you are genuinely moved, i pray alone with God, not out in front of people

I'm with you.
It's hard for me to be moved on command. :laugh: OK, it's time to pray, let's go! I just can't do it. Sorry.

I have had some powerful prayer times and I believe it was because God moved me. Which makes sense, since we are to align our wills to God, not His will to ours.

 

[paul wassona]

There needs to be a cry out against effiminancy, but it is a shame when it has to begin with the women crying out against it first! I don't hold other men'shands unless they're dying. So far that hasn't happened

 

[abcgrad94]

Hi all,

I was listening to Bob Dutko the other day and he had a guy on that wrote a book concerning men and church. He was stating that church was too oriented towards women. He said that the music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other, kept men away from church. He gave a few examples of how making classes and worship service more masculine helped to attract men.

My question is, "Isn't making church more manly the same as the seeker sensitive stuff we've seen before. Isn't this just an attempt to make church fit the world?" I feel that if men aren't saved, they won't want to be in church. A truly saved man will want to be in church and help to influence the body of Christ. He will be salt and light and be an example to what a man of God is. This will attract other men of God and build the church. Yes we do have a problem with few men in church today as this author states, but it isn't because the church as pushed them away, it's because their hearts aren't right with God, IMO. How do you all feel about this?:wavey:

Well, I've read the book and it has some very good points. According to the author, many men feel out of place at church because there aren't enough "manly man" aspects. They have ladies' banquets, women's missionary circles, ladies night out, women's ministry, MOPS, teen outings, outreaches for kids, etc. but many churches really don't have anything geared especially for men. Men who have been raised outside of church, who have been taught church is for sissies and women--don't feel they fit in. They've gone from the pool hall or hunting lodge to dress shoes and singing about love divine.

While I agree that some of the reasons in the book are just excuses, the book did help me to see the point of view of someone who has NOT been raised in church, who has not seen manhood modeled in a godly way. It's up to the Christian men to reach out and mentor them, and sadly, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on. If it were happening, I think the majority of the men interviewed for the book would feel differently about church in general.

 

[SolaSaint]

I dont know who Bob Dutko is, but I think he is off on a rabbit trail that leads to nowhere.

I am a full blown 100% man and I think that "music and holding hands and getting in circles and bringing up our concerns before each other" are all wonderful things to do.

It wasn't Dutko that was making the statements I was talking about. It was his quest. I agree with you that real Christian men will not find church feminine. :thumbsup:

 

[SolaSaint]

Well, I've read the book and it has some very good points. According to the author, many men feel out of place at church because there aren't enough "manly man" aspects. They have ladies' banquets, women's missionary circles, ladies night out, women's ministry, MOPS, teen outings, outreaches for kids, etc. but many churches really don't have anything geared especially for men. Men who have been raised outside of church, who have been taught church is for sissies and women--don't feel they fit in. They've gone from the pool hall or hunting lodge to dress shoes and singing about love divine.

While I agree that some of the reasons in the book are just excuses, the book did help me to see the point of view of someone who has NOT been raised in church, who has not seen manhood modeled in a godly way. It's up to the Christian men to reach out and mentor them, and sadly, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on. If it were happening, I think the majority of the men interviewed for the book would feel differently about church in general.

I totally agree with your last paragraph. I think the Godly men need to step up.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Paul Wassona...

"There needs to be a cry out against effiminancy, but it is a shame when it has to begin with the women crying out against it first! I don't hold other men'shands unless they're dying. So far that hasn't happened"

Wow. In all honesty, I feel kind of sorry for you, brother.

If someone is invited to be part of a prayer circle, and yet they are concerned about the sex of the hand they are joining in prayer with....

Wow. Just wow. I'm saddened by that.

 

[SaggyWoman]

and I especially don't like doing crafts (it seems that Christian women are supposed to like doing crafts for some reason).

And I hate sitting in circles doing them. Ugh. Give me better things to do. Ain't for me.