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Mental illness and the Baptist Chuch

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preacher4truth

Active Member
But not out of the heart of a regenerated man.

Hebrews 10:19-22 NAS77
19 Since therefore, brethren, we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.


It is apparent you do not understand even the elementary principles of brain function. Let me give you a simple example. Do you know anyone with Parkinson's disease? It's root cause is a deficiency in the neurotransmitter dopamine. Information passing between receptors is lost. Would you tell a Parkinson's patient that they are not ill just sinful?

Schizophrenia is a related illness. It's cause? Too much dopamine. Receptors are flooded with information. Some stick completing a thought while other bits of information travel to unintended portions of the brain. That's why schizophrenics see or hear things that are not there. It's obvious you would not hesitate to tell the schizophrenic that they have a sin issue not a medical one.

This is an over simplified description of the related illnesses. Do a little research. There is no excuse for ignorance.

I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well.
Psalms 139:14 NAS77

Yes. Christ came to save us from our SINS not our trials and physical infirmities. I see within this thread an admixture of WOF theology and truth, which makes the end result error, which is why some conclude any mental illness equates to sin or demons.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But not out of the heart of a regenerated man.

Hebrews 10:19-22 NAS77
19 Since therefore, brethren, we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.


It is apparent you do not understand even the elementary principles of brain function. Let me give you a simple example. Do you know anyone with Parkinson's disease? It's root cause is a deficiency in the neurotransmitter dopamine. Information passing between receptors is lost. Would you tell a Parkinson's patient that they are not ill just sinful?

Schizophrenia is a related illness. It's cause? Too much dopamine. Receptors are flooded with information. Some stick completing a thought while other bits of information travel to unintended portions of the brain. That's why schizophrenics see or hear things that are not there. It's obvious you would not hesitate to tell the schizophrenic that they have a sin issue not a medical one.

This is an over simplified description of the related illnesses. Do a little research. There is no excuse for ignorance.

I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well.
Psalms 139:14 NAS77

Well said....and well illustrated......many do not understand mental illness issues, because they cannot seperate some of the sin related behaviours,from the manifestation of the illness....Many times this is why most of the people in jail have some mental health issues that have gone unchecked.

Seekingtruth struggles to remain midline.....and yet he is not immune from just being contrary at times ...due to him being ornary, or just a bit of a butt-head....unrelated to his chemical issues......the illness is not a free pass to all manner of bad behaviour...when he has the illness managed.

Does he have an issue....yes....but the one issue does not mean other than the chemical situation....he as a high functioning person....is somehow given an excuse if he is rude, or envious, or rebellious?...No......but he has to seek God for help in a whole different realm also....
 

Steadfast Fred

Active Member
When someone can show me a photograph of a mind, or of a mind that is sick, then I will be glad to concur the mind is a material object and say there is such a thing as mental illness.

Until then, I will continue to call it as the Bible calls it... sin.
 

padredurand

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When someone can show me a photograph of a mind, or of a mind that is sick, then I will be glad to concur the mind is a material object and say there is such a thing as mental illness.

Until then, I will continue to call it as the Bible calls it... sin.

Show me a picture of a watt or a volt and I will believe in electricity.
 

preacher4truth

Active Member
When someone can show me a photograph of a mind, or of a mind that is sick, then I will be glad to concur the mind is a material object and say there is such a thing as mental illness.

Until then, I will continue to call it as the Bible calls it... sin.

Yes. And while you're waiting, wait also for a picture of the spirit of a saved man then you can believe in that as well.
 

padredurand

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You guys can continue feasting from the table of madness if you wish, I will believe the Word.

How is it contrary to the Word for us to discover how fearfully and wonderfully we are made? We are just beginning to understand the complexity of the human form. God made us this way.

You are correct in one respect. Every failure of the human body - from illness to death is a result of sin.....

For the wages of sin is death....Romans 6:23a

Cancer, heart disease, stroke, etc, etc. All of them are a result of sin. How can you select just one of a myriad of illnesses and proclaim that one specific disease can be overcome if folk would just stop believing a lie and get right with God?
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
Seekingthetruth...

You posted...

Bobby, I have never heard of any christian making fun of a person with cancer, or strokes, or physical deformities....but even in my own church, one of the deacons said that my illness was a cop out and made up. He doesnt believe in mental illness. He said that unless a person was insane and needed to be in an institution that they could live as normal as everyone else if they chose to.

I wish he was right, but he's not. So he makes fun of me and ridicules me. He is no longer a deacon, thank goodness

I can assure you, I am the most calm natured, non violent, peace loving person you will ever meet. I have not lowered myself to the level of fisticuffes since 5th grade (I'm 55 now)

Yet what you posted up their makes me want to punch that persons lights out..then punch them out again..then punch them out again..then punch them out 100 times more.

I would not be surprised if that *deacon* is no more saved then Satan.
 
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saturneptune

New Member
John, I guess it's that so many just don't understand mental illness. I know I never did and have learned a lot in the last 15 years or so. But I have to say that I'm so glad that you are doing better and I say "poop" to the deacon who thinks you're faking it. Don't listen to him. :)
A deacon in my church would lose his ordination for such a stunt. There should be no tolerance for any kind of demeaning action, gesture, snide remark, or arrogance towards those who do not have the mental capacity most of us have been blessed with by the Lord. As far as the drugs, I say if it helps, more power to them. Some of the posts in this thread are really cruel. If not for the grace of God, some of you self righteous spiritual giants would be in a wheel chair totally paralyzed.

Instead of saying depression, anger, fear, sadness, inability to cope are cop outs, and using drugs to help them also makes them a drug addict, if we just have to rid our denomination of someone, how about getting rid of the gossips, those who point fingers at unBiblical habits as sinful like dancing and lottery tickets, and the four hundred pound pot luck gluttons.
 

seekingthetruth

New Member
Well said....and well illustrated......many do not understand mental illness issues, because they cannot seperate some of the sin related behaviours,from the manifestation of the illness....Many times this is why most of the people in jail have some mental health issues that have gone unchecked.

Seekingtruth struggles to remain midline.....and yet he is not immune from just being contrary at times ...due to him being ornary, or just a bit of a butt-head....unrelated to his chemical issues......the illness is not a free pass to all manner of bad behaviour...when he has the illness managed.

Does he have an issue....yes....but the one issue does not mean other than the chemical situation....he as a high functioning person....is somehow given an excuse if he is rude, or envious, or rebellious?...No......but he has to seek God for help in a whole different realm also....

You sound like my wife!!!!

But you are correct, i am not looking for an excuse to be rude. I just want to be given the same chance and respect as others get.

Icon, I see it this way, you and I are never going to agree on theology, but I think we do agree on the basic point of who our savior is.

BTW.....sometimes i am more than "just a bit of a butt"!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

John
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
Well said....and well illustrated......many do not understand mental illness issues, because they cannot seperate some of the sin related behaviours,from the manifestation of the illness....Many times this is why most of the people in jail have some mental health issues that have gone unchecked.

Seekingtruth struggles to remain midline.....and yet he is not immune from just being contrary at times ...due to him being ornary, or just a bit of a butt-head....unrelated to his chemical issues......the illness is not a free pass to all manner of bad behaviour...when he has the illness managed.

Does he have an issue....yes....but the one issue does not mean other than the chemical situation....he as a high functioning person....is somehow given an excuse if he is rude, or envious, or rebellious?...No......but he has to seek God for help in a whole different realm also....

But, may I add, that yes I have a certain amount of "buttheadedness" to work on....you have at least a small degree of "arrogance" to work on.:saint::saint:

John
 

saturneptune

New Member
The Bible doesnt mention the Flu either.....but boy did i have a bad case of it this year.

What sin would you attribute to that?

John
As I said above, and I agree with you, there are some really cruel posts in this thread. It seems to me there is an aire of superiority from those who do not have a mental disablility, like it is their right to be healthy. One inkling from the Lord, and in a twinkling of an eye, they could be in one of these states if not worse.

It is beyond me, how anyone, especially leaders in a Christian vocation, could have such an arrogant mindset. It seems there is a bad misunderstanding of the relationship between illness and sin. It makes one wonder how much good all that higher education at seminary does, and what kind of garbage is being projected from pulpits every Sunday morning.
 

seekingthetruth

New Member
I am going to say this, and i wont mention names...they are free to chime in if they want to.

Several years ago, when my illness reached it's peak, I was at the edge. I mean, I had nothing, and i wanted to die more than anything. I didnt want to die to get back at anyone, or to prove a point, i just wanted to die because I was tired of living. I hated myself.

I had no family, no friends, i was in a state where i didnt know anyone.....and I wanted to die.

But....I kept going back to the BB, and talking with people. Several here had me call them on the phone, a couple helped me with a place to stay, and eventually I made my way back to reality. Some here on the BB know who I was before, and who I am now.

My ordeal wasnt over by no means, I got worse a few months later and found myself with the barrel of a gun in my mouth. Luckily, someone helped me get to the right hospital, and the correct diagnosis.

Now, I have a great home with my wife and 6 year old. I have the support of a great pastor. In the past three years I have put thousands of hours into treatment and thearpy. I get so tired of going to the doctor, and taking the meds. But guess what? It is worth it all, because now I at least appear to be normal....and I never have before.

I wish FAL and Fred could see a video of my first 50 years of undiagnosed mental illness, and then see a video of my life in the last three years since I started to recover.

Yes, as Icon said, it is a struggle. Everyday I face the same problems I always had and it is hard sometimes to make myself deal with them in a different way, but it is worth it.

Funny thing is this, I get angry sometimes at the stuff people post here, but I have learned to live with it. This thread is just a cyber example of what I hear in person from some of my Christian brothers in my church that I dearly love.

OK, here comes a confession.

My pastor and I are really good friends. To me it's rare to have a true preacher of the Gospel that I can call a friend, but he is.

I see him several times a week. He shows up here anytime, and I go to his house anytime. Last week, his 6 year old had a sleepover at my house with my 6 year old. We camped out in the living room with snacks, a coleman latern, and of course, X-Box. The next morning I took the boys fishing, and they caught at least a dozen smallmouth bass. (Got pics so it will never be forgotten)

Anyway, I am very close to my pastor and my wife and I have been visiting other churches, but we havent been to the church we love for a while because of the one deacon that hates me.

He is a photogragher, and he posted on facebook one Sunday about how he spent all night in a nightclub taking pictures of a band, and how much fun the nightclub was.

Well, I responded with "Do you think it is a good idea for a deacon to be in a night club all night?'

Boy, did he let me have it. He was furious.

It got so bad that we had a meeting with me, him and our two pastors. At the meeting he berated me terribly. His stance was that he was a deacon and that I had no right to question what he did.

And then he dropped the bombshell!

He stated that my disability was fake, mental illness does not exist, and noone should listen to anything that a freeloader like me has to say.

So, me and my wife have been visiting other churches. My pastor is still my pastor and friend, but we dont feel comfortable going to our church right now. (The deacons family is on almost every committe, and his mother is the piano player, ect)

Let me add, that in the last 12 months since this happened. The deacon was removed from office, his house was foreclosed on, his wife lost her teaching job, and his photography business went under.

Go figure!

John
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I love you Icon...dont ever forget that

John

We can be glad that God has set His love on us...brother.A man or woman who does not know God savingly has no real idea why they are walking around on this planet. A person apart from a saving knowledge of Jesus...lives as if there is no God ,and do not understand that we are here for a purpose. For all christians we are told;
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

When God saves us...he has ordained good works that we are meant to walk in. You going through your issues and comforted by God....will let you help others who have a similar struggle...God will give you opportunity.


It got so bad that we had a meeting with me, him and our two pastors. At the meeting he berated me terribly. His stance was that he was a deacon and that I had no right to question what he did.

And then he dropped the bombshell!

He stated that my disability was fake, mental illness does not exist, and noone should listen to anything that a freeloader like me has to say.

So, me and my wife have been visiting other churches. My pastor is still my pastor and friend, but we dont feel comfortable going to our church right now. (The deacons family is on almost every committe, and his mother is the piano player, ect)

Let me add, that in the last 12 months since this happened. The deacon was removed from office, his house was foreclosed on, his wife lost her teaching job, and his photography business went under.
Go figure!

This might be the only indication this "deacon' might be a christian,who had to be chastened for his series of sins against you....much less his apparent affinity for the world.

John....when i post things that you bristle against.....just read the verses offered and see what I am offering....even if you do not agree.....the goal is to better serve the Lord...so we both want truth:thumbs: I might have some, you might have some...some one else...one plants, one waters but God gives the increase.

Even when you have disagreed...at least you expressed a concern for lost souls:thumbs: This is why we are still here....
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

All debate and discussion takes place in here on BB....but you and I go into the world of the perishing....you will be used of God to reach those you meet...i never will see those people......I will meet persons you will never see...lol..I am in southwest oregon right now....talking with two people so far at the subway at the truckstop...lol You are not here...so it is up to me to occupy this space for Jesus tonight....for whatever purpose He sees fit:thumbs:
 

mandym

New Member
The answer is in the bible, try it for once instead of making up your own religion.


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