Merited or not merited

[AustinC]

Do you agree salvation is not merited in anyway.
Or
Salvation must be merited in some way to be saved.

This depends on whether one teaches that humans must cooperate with God (choose to accept what God would gift) to be saved. This cooperation would include requirements that humans must do be before God could have the capacity to save. If one teaches such requirements before God can act to save, then that teaching is merited salvation.
Looking at the poll and knowing there are some here that require human action before God can save, it is a sure statement to say that some people are not being honest with the poll.

 

[AustinC]

no it doesn’t when someone gives you a gift and you reach out and receive it from them do we also say they gave the gift to themselves

Does the gift have your name on it previous to your receiving it?

 

[Salty]

Does the gift have your name on it previous to your receiving it?

It will be in the Book of Life

 

[AustinC]

So it seems you are saying that since God has to be the one to give the gift and since He is the one that decides who gets the gift then would that not make Him the one that condemns everyone that does not get the gift?

Yes, God condemns sinners for their lawbreaking. God does not show mercy to all lawbreakers, but he has chosen to show mercy to some. As Sovereign King, this is His right and His right alone.
Do you dare call God unfair, Silverhair? That is certainly your implication.

 

[AustinC]

It will be in the Book of Life

It IS in the Book of Life.
Isaiah 43:1
But now, O Jacob, listen to the Lord who created you. O Israel, the one who formed you says, “Do not be afraid, for I have ransomed you. I have called you by name; you are mine.

 

[1689Dave]

if you don’t reach out and receive the gift you don’t get it either, still no one ever says receiving a gift also constitutes giving the gift to yourself no matter how much effort you put into it

Please understand that salvation happens when you cannot perceive the true Christ. And only because of the New Birth are your eyes opened. All the works follow salvation. They never cause it.

 

[37818]

So it seems you are saying that since God has to be the one to give the gift and since He is the one that decides who gets the gift then would that not make Him the one that condemns everyone that does not get the gift?

John 3:18, ". . . He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . ." Also John 3:36, ". . . He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

You also said the receiver's will has nothing to do with him getting the gift. If that is so then why these verses?
Act 16:30-31
30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,...”

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
for it is the power of God to salvation
for everyone who believes

Joh 3:14-15
14 “so must the Son of Man be lifted up
15 so that whoever believes
will in Him have eternal life

Do you not see that the person must do something before they are saved?

And for those that keep saying that faith is a work:
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Rom_3:28
a man is justified by faith
apart from works of the Law

So for all those that insist that faith is a work, well as you can see it is the work God requires

What does John 1:12-13 then mean? ". . . But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. . . ." All we can do is believe God. Unless God gives one that birth we are still toast. (Titus 1:2) That birth is not by our will but God's.

 

[kyredneck]

No one merits salvation in any way. But God does render to every man according to their works. Works is a key element of our justification.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, God condemns sinners for their lawbreaking. God does not show mercy to all lawbreakers, but he has chosen to show mercy to some. As Sovereign King, this is His right and His right alone.
Do you dare call God unfair, Silverhair? That is certainly your implication.

Austin you never stop with the over the top comments do you. Try responding to something without your constant reading into or miss reading of the text.

Some day you may actually learn how to read something in context, but I doubt that will happen soon.

 

[Silverhair]

John 3:18, ". . . He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . ." Also John 3:36, ". . . He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

What does John 1:12-13 then mean? ". . . But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. . . ." All we can do is believe God. Unless God gives one that birth we are still toast. (Titus 1:2) That birth is not by our will but God's.

Did you miss that in what I posted? Only God can save but He saves because we believe. That is what the bible says, don't you agree with that?

 

[AustinC]

Did you miss that in what I posted? Only God can save but He saves because we believe. That is what the bible says, don't you agree with that?

I hope you voted for merited salvation because what you say here is exactly that.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you never stop with the over the top comments do you. Try responding to something without your constant reading into or miss reading of the text.

Some day you may actually learn how to read something in context, but I doubt that will happen soon.

I answered your question. I am not wrong in identifying your accusations against God, which is why you don't actually address my point.

 

[Silverhair]

No one merits salvation in any way. But God does render to every man according to their works. Works is a key element of our justification.

Do you have a different meaning for the word Justification than what we find in Webster?
" In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ."

I agree that no one merits salvation, but we do have to fulfill the condition for salvation.

 

[AustinC]

No one merits salvation in any way. But God does render to every man according to their works. Works is a key element of our justification.

No.
The believer has the works of building in the Kingdom, which God ordained for us, judged (gold, silver, precious stone, wood, hay, and stubble) but that has literally nothing to do with our justification. Our justification is entirely secured by Christ who by his atoning work in making us righteous gives us the faith that seals our justification.
Romans 3:21-28
But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

 

[Silverhair]

I hope you voted for merited salvation because what you say here is exactly that.

Do you not believe what the bible says? You keep disagreeing with it so I am not sure what you believe.

Rom_3:26 "...so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom_3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Rom_5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith,.."
Gal_2:16 "...so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law;.."
Gal_3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Now Austin this may be hard for you to grasp but we are saved because of our faith. And since this is what Christ Jesus says we are to do
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Well that is just what I will do. Might I suggest that you do the same.

 

[AustinC]

Do you not believe what the bible says? You keep disagreeing with it so I am not sure what you believe.

Rom_3:26 "...so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom_3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Rom_5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith,.."
Gal_2:16 "...so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law;.."
Gal_3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Now Austin this may be hard for you to grasp but we are saved because of our faith. And since this is what Christ Jesus says we are to do
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Well that is just what I will do. Might I suggest that you do the same.

Let me remind you of your words.
Silverhair wrote:
"God can save but He saves because we believe."
God tells us this in regard to salvation:
Ephesians 2:4-7
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

Silverhair, even our belief is given to us by God.

 

[37818]

Did you miss that in what I posted? Only God can save but He saves because we believe. That is what the bible says, don't you agree with that?

The gift is through faith. Believing God about it.

So yes. But our choosing to believe does not cause our new birth. John 1:13, ". . . Which were born, not . . . . of the will of man, but of God. . . ."

 

[AustinC]

I agree that no one merits salvation, but we do have to fulfill the condition for salvation.

Here you simply contradict yourself.
1) No one merits salvation
2) We do have to fulfill the condition for (to be) salvation (saved).

 

[kyredneck]

Do you have a different meaning for the word Justification than what we find in Webster?

Do you have a different take of what Paul was revealing in Romans 2:5-16?

Do you have a different take on what James was revealing in James 2:24?

 

[Silverhair]

Let me remind you of your words.
Silverhair wrote:
"God can save but He saves because we believe."
God tells us this in regard to salvation:
Ephesians 2:4-7
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

Silverhair, even our belief is given to us by God.

You just proved my point. You ignore the parts of a post you do not like. You have to read the whole post, that is called reading in context. I realize that is had for you but it will help you understand the bible.

You ignore scripture and try to foist your errant views on this board, sorry I am not buying them.