Merited or not merited

[Silverhair]

I trust the Bible. I distrust you.

Did I ever say you had to trust me?
Austin I have told you many times to just trust what the bible clearly shows you. The problem that I see is that while you claim to trust the bible you at the same time deny what it tells you.

 

[Revmitchell]

" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" ( Ephesians 2:8 ) and:

" knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." ( Galatians 2:16-20 ).

Does it not state right here that we as men are not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ?
Paul tells us that Christ lives in him, and he lives his life by the faith of the Son of God, which other Scriptures tell us that He authored and finished it ( Hebrews 12:2 ) for us.

In other words, Scripture does indeed say that the believer's faith is not of ourselves.

Nope it says we are saved which is the gift and not of ourselves and it says that faith is the conduit by which the gift is delivered. No one here has suggested engaging in works of the law (I.e. OT law) to be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" ( Ephesians 2:8 ) and:

" knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." ( Galatians 2:16-20 ).

Does it not state right here that we as men are not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ?
Paul tells us that Christ lives in him, and he lives his life by the faith of the Son of God, which other Scriptures tell us that He authored and finished it
( Hebrews 12:2 ) for us.

In other words, Scripture does indeed say that the believer's faith is not of ourselves.

Gal 2:16-20 ESV yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal 2:16 NIV 1984 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
Gal 2:20 NIV 1984 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal 2:16 NKJV knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ,
Gal 2:20 NKJV I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Gal 2:16 NASB nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus
Gal 2:20 NASB "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Does it not state right here that we as men are not justified by the works of the Law, but by our faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[37818]

We believe and God saves, just simple logic there.

Maybe. But according to the genuine text of John 6:47, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life. . . ." Being on our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[AustinC]

Did I ever say you had to trust me?
Austin I have told you many times to just trust what the bible clearly shows you. The problem that I see is that while you claim to trust the bible you at the same time deny what it tells you.

I never have denied what the Bible says.
I have shown that you often ignore context and take a sentence out of that context to create an interpretation that is utterly foolish on your part.
I deny your interpretation very often because very often you are utterly wrong.

 

[37818]

Scripture tells me that I was saved by grace through faith...
and that my faith was not "of" myself, but is and was the gift of God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), . . .

The salvation is not of anyone's self. But unless said faith is one's own, how ever one thinks one has gotten it, then one would really have no faith at all. Either one believes a thing or one does not believe a thing.

 

[AustinC]

Nope it says we are saved which is the gift and not of ourselves and it says that faith is the conduit by which the gift is delivered. No one here has suggested engaging in works of the law (I.e. OT law) to be saved.

If you are right, then salvation is merited by the faith you displayed.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are right, then salvation is merited by the faith you displayed.

that is a claim without foundation. Just because we respond to the gospel as it enables us to have faith and of which is Gods design does not mean we them merit our salvation. Giving a gift is where the merit is found never is there merit found in receiving a gift. It’s a bad argument.

 

[Silverhair]

Maybe. But according to the genuine text of John 6:47, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life. . . ." Being on our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you think I meant believe in someone else?

 

[AustinC]

that is a claim without foundation. Just because we respond to the gospel as it enables us to have faith and of which is Gods design does not mean we them merit our salvation. Giving a gift is where the merit is found never is there merit found in receiving a gift. It’s a bad argument.

It's based entirely in your claim.
You wrote:
Nope it says we are saved which is the gift and not of ourselves and it says that faith is the conduit by which the gift is delivered. No one here has suggested engaging in works of the law (I.e. OT law) to be saved.

You make faith to be of you and from you. Therefore it is your work.

Your statement is the foundation.

 

[AustinC]

The salvation is not of anyone's self. But unless said faith is one's own, how ever one thinks one has gotten it, then one would really have no faith at all. Either one believes a thing or one does not believe a thing.

We have faith only because our great High Priest continually intercedes for us so that we might be saved. If Jesus stopped interceding...we would be doomed.
Hebrews 7:24-25
But because Jesus lives forever, his priesthood lasts forever. Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through him. He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf.

 

[Silverhair]

I never have denied what the Bible says.
I have shown that you often ignore context and take a sentence out of that context to create an interpretation that is utterly foolish on your part.
I deny your interpretation very often because very often you are utterly wrong.

Austin this is just a common refrain of yours. You claim that any text that does not support your errant view is just taken out of context. But when I give you clear text you just ignore it. But that does seem to be the tactic of many that do not want to trust scripture.

Like they say "I can only show the truth but I can't make you accept it".

 

[Silverhair]

It's based entirely in your claim.
You wrote:
Nope it says we are saved which is the gift and not of ourselves and it says that faith is the conduit by which the gift is delivered. No one here has suggested engaging in works of the law (I.e. OT law) to be saved.

You make faith to be of you and from you. Therefore it is your work.

Your statement is the foundation.

Austin that is a bold statement. Perhaps you should tell Christ Jesus He got it wrong.
For those that keep saying that faith is a work:
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Or why not tell Paul he was also wrong
Act 16:30-31
30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,...”

As I have said many times, Austin you just have to start trusting what the scriptures say. Get over your errant view and come back to what the bible says.

 

[Silverhair]

We have faith only because our great High Priest continually intercedes for us so that we might be saved. If Jesus stopped interceding...we would be doomed.
Hebrews 7:24-25
But because Jesus lives forever, his priesthood lasts forever. Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through him. He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf.

So my question for you Austin is what is the point you are trying to make here? Christ Jesus intercedes for those that believe. That is not in question. But what does that have to do with what 37818 said. He was referring to trusting in Christ Jesus for salvation and you respond with, what?

 

[Revmitchell]

It's based entirely in your claim.
You wrote:
Nope it says we are saved which is the gift and not of ourselves and it says that faith is the conduit by which the gift is delivered. No one here has suggested engaging in works of the law (I.e. OT law) to be saved.

You make faith to be of you and from you. Therefore it is your work.

Your statement is the foundation.

nope I don’t not even with those words. That perspective is your doing not mine.

 

[AustinC]

nope I don’t not even with those words. That perspective is your doing not mine.

Perhaps you are just blind to your claim and cannot fathom how your view is works based.

 

[AustinC]

Austin this is just a common refrain of yours. You claim that any text that does not support your errant view is just taken out of context. But when I give you clear text you just ignore it. But that does seem to be the tactic of many that do not want to trust scripture.

Like they say "I can only show the truth but I can't make you accept it".

You rarely show truth.

 

[AustinC]

Austin that is a bold statement. Perhaps you should tell Christ Jesus He got it wrong.
For those that keep saying that faith is a work:
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Or why not tell Paul he was also wrong
Act 16:30-31
30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,...”

As I have said many times, Austin you just have to start trusting what the scriptures say. Get over your errant view and come back to what the bible says.

Perhaps you should grasp what John 6 is saying and how it fits with all who believe.
Let me explain. God causes people to believe.
You cause nothing.

 

[AustinC]

So my question for you Austin is what is the point you are trying to make here? Christ Jesus intercedes for those that believe. That is not in question. But what does that have to do with what 37818 said. He was referring to trusting in Christ Jesus for salvation and you respond with, what?

I already explained it. If Christ, our High Priest did not continually intercede on our behalf, we would never have faith to believe. We are entirely dependent upon our High Priest.
Hebrews 7:24-25
But because Jesus lives forever, his priesthood lasts forever. Therefore he is able, once and forever, to save those who come to God through him. He lives forever to intercede with God on their behalf.

 

[Silverhair]

Perhaps you should grasp what John 6 is saying and how it fits with all who believe.
Let me explain. God causes people to believe.
You cause nothing.

Must admit, I have rarely found anyone that is as arrogant as you. You refuse to acknowledge what scripture says and attempt to put down those that do. You really need to humble yourself before God and ask for His forgiveness.

I will pray for you Austin, as you do need to have the true light of scripture to shine on you.