Featured Merited or not merited

Perhaps you should grasp what John 6 is saying and how it fits with all who believe.
Let me explain. God causes people to believe.
You cause nothing.

Your response against my statement expresses that you view yourself as the cause agent. Since you view yourself as the cause agent, let us talk about your arrogance.

 

Well since the bible says we have to be the ones to believe as God does not believe for us lets talk about you ignoring the text of the bible. Austin if you want to believe that God drops faith into you that is your right. Perhaps I just have a higher view of God. God actually is sovereign and He can allow man to think for themselves and still be sovereign, which you seem to think He cannot or would not do.

Scripture from NKJV

Voice-Active

The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action.

Mar 16:15-16 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Both in Active voice

Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Both in Active voice

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." Active voice

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. Active voice he who believes

He who comes Voice-Middle or Passive Deponent
The middle or passive deponent forms in almost all cases are translated as being in the active voice.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Both in Active voice

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Both in Passive voice

Voice-Passive
The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action.

In this case the subject is the heart or the mouth which would indicate the person doing it not God.

Austin do you see the pattern here. The person is the one doing the action not God doing it for them. God does not cause people to believe.

 

Dead vs Alive

Silverhair, who makes you alive? Is it you or God?

Tell me how a dead man performs an action. How did you do it so that you could actively believe and thus become alive?

 

Catholics, Mormons, JW, islam basically all religions save biblical one demands the sinner to get themselves in a merit state that "forces" God to save us!

 

In the verses in Romans, the belief itself does not demonstrate action to gain, but rather a matter of acknowledgment in response to that which is convincing.

Because the belief (as used in Romans 10) is used as a matter of expressing that which one has already been convinced, the "believe in your heart..." should be considered as post catalyst of the stimulus of convincing already accomplished in the heart, and the expression of the change indicated by the statement of belief. The change takes place in the previous verse by the faith heralded by the word of God.

One must have that work of the word preached in order to have a changed heart in which that person then expresses the belief. (Note: because of the "word of faith" misused by the characters of fakery, I will only mention that the word preached is living, sharper than a sword with two edges, and dividing the soul from the spirit, in doing so is the "word of faith.")

 

This is a great discussion. I do have a question. How does Matthew 16:13-17 come into the discussion here? Can we believe who Christ is without the Father revealing it to us? Also does Ephesians 2:1-10 help to reveal more on this discussion? Or doesn't it? Thanks.

 

There are those who desire to place some "timeline" or priority upon sequence.

Why, I really don't know. But because you brought it up, here is what I have found in Scriptures.

Christ stated in John 3 that one must be born again from above. That is salvation. Without that birth, there is no salvation.

The sequence of how that takes place is also part of the passage. The Spirit of God moves and no one is apprised of where it has been or where it is going, but without the work of the Spirit of God there is no salvation.

The result of the work and birth is also part of that salvation. That God loved and gave (Eng. past tense) Christ. Those that believe (Eng. present) have (Eng. past tense as already acquired) eternal life. Those that don't believe are condemned already (Eng. past tense as already condemned).

Example: Prior to birth, there must be conception. The results of conception are birth and often loud announcement to everyone present the arrival.

The same is with the new birth from above. The proclaiming follows the conception and birthing.

Therefore, faith is part and not separate from regeneration and salvation all prior to the new birth. The one born has no participation other than responding to the forces causing the conception, causing the discomfort to remain in the darkness, and causing the birth. However, one born does not remain quiet and proclaims to all who have ears.

Sequence has nothing to do with the child's willingness nor desire, just as John 1 and Romans 10 states. “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,..." This is what takes place that causes the birth. Conception, new birth, resulting in proclamation.

One does not have Romans 10:13-15 prior to Romans 10:8.

 

I really like this post, especially that last sentence, which I would like to expound upon relative to what I believe the saving faith, to be.

What is Romans 10:8? What, Word of God, heard, which was our saving faith.

A man, Jesus of Nazareth, born of the virgin woman, Mary, died, not for or because of his sin but for, because of our sins.
Now if nothing else had taken place would we be saved from our sins? See 1 Cor 15:17, 18 and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins; then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish;
This is what was said of that man, conceived out of Spirit and brought forth by the virgin Mary, who was sinless yet died.

Acts 13:30,33 and God did raise him out of the dead, God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee.


It was because of the obedience unto death of that sinless man that God the Father raised him up out of the dead, highly exalting him? That is what we heard and that is our saving faith, That is why we receive the Spirit of promise moving us from unbelief unto belief. Of the faith of the Abraham.

John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
1 Peter 1:21 who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God.

 

Romans 10:5-21

For Moses writes that the law’s way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. But faith’s way of getting right with God says, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven?’ (to bring Christ down to earth). And don’t say, ‘Who will go down to the place of the dead?’ (to bring Christ back to life again).” In fact, it says, “The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.” And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!” But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prophet said, “Lord, who has believed our message?” So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ. But I ask, have the people of Israel actually heard the message? Yes, they have: “The message has gone throughout the earth, and the words to all the world.” But I ask, did the people of Israel really understand? Yes, they did, for even in the time of Moses, God said, “I will rouse your jealousy through people who are not even a nation. I will provoke your anger through the foolish Gentiles.” And later Isaiah spoke boldly for God, saying, “I was found by people who were not looking for me. I showed myself to those who were not asking for me.” But regarding Israel, God said, “All day long I opened my arms to them, but they were disobedient and rebellious.”

 

Which comes first:
At the conception or the birth?

When is one alive:
At the conception or the birth?

When does one proclaim their arrival?
At the conception or after the birth?

If one is to be born again how then is such not a copy in type found in the physical birth for one must be born both of water and of blood to gain eternal life. They are linked

 

Option 1 biblical, option 2 would be how Catholics and Cultist would answer this