Messages from beyond to encourage or help us?

[Arbo]

How dare any of you sit back on your righteous hind parts and sit in judgement of others? Some of you are despicable! Perfect examples of Two Legged Self-Righteousness in action. If Satan can speak with any of us, so can our Lord!

There's a difference between the Lord reaching out to us and dead people doing the same. My understanding is that this thread is about the latter.

 

[HAMel]

There's a difference between the Lord reaching out to us and dead people doing the same. My understanding is that this thread is about the latter.

The last paragraph of the original post is...,

So the poll question, here expanded: What is your view about seeing events, perhaps extraordinary, following the death of loved ones, as any type of communication, encouragement, or warning? Might it be that person, is it God, or might it be evil? Or nothing at all?

Perhaps, like me, this author lacks the Ernest Hemingway ability to communicate adequately when it comes to the printed word. Quite clearly though, someone is reaching out for advise, input, etc. For anyone to assume the position that all such is nonsense and from Satan, is wrong!

I do agree with you that "dead people" do not communicate with the living! There would be no need for this. ...but wait a minute here. Is it possible the Lord could empress upon the heart of one of His Children by bringing to mind a departed loved one? What flashes through ones heart and mind is the loved one. The loved one isn't the one communicating. Is the Lord unable to use what is familiar with us to make His point?

I have no desire to be adversarial here or to beat a dead horse but do take exception to those who just sit back and assume a position that all is from Satan.

I do apologize to all of you for my attitude here.

To the OP. Be very careful. Be very careful trying all the Spirits.

 

[abcgrad94]

My precious Granny passed two years ago. We were very close, and her death impacted me deeply.

The day before her funeral, all the family gathered at the funeral home. I was the only one who could not go into the room where her body lay. The rest of the family (30-40 people) all went in to view the body and read the cards on all the flowers, but I found a private corner at sat and cried, overcome with grief. My body felt weak like water, as if I had no strength.

At that point, I felt a presence surround me, comfort me, and sooth my spirit. That presence gave me the strength to get up and keep going, and it stayed with me for the next few days. It was supernatural, but I knew it was there because I could not properly function of my own accord.

I cannot explain exactly what it was, but I believe God sent his angels to comfort me and carry me through that rough time. I would like to think that my Granny's spirit was there, encouraging me, but I have no scriptural basis to believe this. I do know that SOMETHING happened, and it cannot be taken away from me whether anyone else believes it or not.

 

[Aaron]

I have had another example the past couple of days of someone saying they “know” a certain event— extraordinary, or perhaps less so— comes by the influence of a newly deceased loved one. My sister-in-law’s grandmother died early Wednesday morning in a nursing home, having been there for about 2 years with Alzheimer’s disease. My sister-in-law says she ‘inherited’ her grandmother’s love of outdoors and gardening, so when she looked outside this morning and saw just one white iris blooming in her garden, she knows that is a “sign” from her grandmother that she is well and happy. When I first read the news of her death yesterday, on Facebook, it was from her mother (the deceased woman’s daughter), who wrote very poetically about her dad, who died one year and one day before, coming in a chariot to take her with him, and quoting God himself as saying “___, your life on earth is over; now come…”

As I said, this was “another example” of the idea of messages from departed loved ones, or God's messages on their behalf. One previous one concerned my own mother. Among the things she left in her house-- which I took care of, then later bought-- was a chiming clock she received at her 30th anniversary of employment with the phone company. She had not kept it running in years, and it no longer chimed or stuck the hours. But a few months after her passing, it shocked me by chiming—just out of nowhere; there had been no winding and no attempts by me or anyone to get the clock to work. I told about this to my girlfriend, and guess what she said?-- “It must be your mom.” I told her I didn’t think so, and even if it were, what could that mean? I will limit this to those 2 examples, but the key seems to be that these 'events' are incidents that would seem to be about personal property or interest, or based on a personal influence on your life.

So the poll question, here expanded: What is your view about seeing events, perhaps extraordinary, following the death of loved ones, as any type of communication, encouragement, or warning? Might it be that person, is it God, or might it be evil? Or nothing at all?

According the Scriptures, angels are the ministers of them who shall be heirs of salvation. If I yield to the Scriptures in that, I am not afforded the illusion that the spirit of my dearly departed has visited me in any way.

We also can't think that our loved ones, once they've left this life, if they were saved, have any thought for anything but the Father and His will. We may miss them dearly, but they don't miss us. They care nothing for us, unless we are in Christ as well. And on Judgement Day, if we are unsaved, there will be no pity from them, no sympathy, no sadness, no tears whatever for our sakes. But they will rejoice as they sit in righteous judgment of us and of the angels who fell, and they will wash their feet in our blood praising God that even in the death of sinners, He is glorified.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Experience will never back down to argument.

 

[Aaron]

More accurately, one's perception of his experiences will never back down.

Not willingly, anyway.

 

[abcgrad94]

We also can't think that our loved ones, once they've left this life, if they were saved, have any thought for anything but the Father and His will. We may miss them dearly, but they don't miss us. They care nothing for us, unless we are in Christ as well. And on Judgement Day, if we are unsaved, there will be no pity from them, no sympathy, no sadness, no tears whatever for our sakes. But they will rejoice as they sit in righteous judgment of us and of the angels who fell, and they will wash their feet in our blood praising God that even in the death of sinners, He is glorified.

While I agree with the first paragraph of your post, this part here is mere speculation. Remember, even the rich man in hell "cared" about his family and wanted Abraham to send someone to witness to them. So how can you say our saved relatives will care nothing for us? Where is that in scripture?

Also, where do you get them "washing their feet in our blood?" I've never heard of that one before.

 

[abcgrad94]

Experience will never back down to argument.

Experiences DO happen. I won't poo-poo someone as lying or crazy if they've experienced something. But, our job is to compare our experience to scripture. Experiences don't trump the Bible, because we know God's world doesn't change or contradict itself.

 

[Aaron]

While I agree with the first paragraph of your post, this part here is mere speculation. Remember, even the rich man in hell "cared" about his family and wanted Abraham to send someone to witness to them.

Though there is some disagreement about the fact, The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable.

Even if it isn't, I said our departed loved ones if they were saved have no thought for us. You don't read of Lazarus interceding for the unsaved of his family. Where is he? In Abraham's bosom. In other words, one in mind, will and emotion with his father. Complete and utter fulfillment.

Satan, on the other hand, savors the things of men, and the rich man is obviously still preoccupied with the cares of this world even in hell. In fact, it aggravates his situation.

So how can you say our saved relatives will care nothing for us? Where is that in scripture?

It's the obvious conclusion of our shedding this corruption and putting on incorruption. When we see Him, we will be like Him. David and Samuel were rebuked for their sorrow over their loved ones whom God had rejected, and there is no lament for Judas.

Also, where do you get them "washing their feet in our blood?" I've never heard of that one before.

Psalm 58:10

 

[abcgrad94]

You don't read of Lazarus interceding for the unsaved of his family. Where is he? In Abraham's bosom. In other words, one in mind, will and emotion with his father. Complete and utter fulfillment.

Ok, I get that, but if Lazarus had family they would have been taking care of him in the first place. So perhaps he had no one to begin with. But, the rich man was denied his request to send someone to his family because they already had the prophets. The fact that his request wasn't granted is probably our best argument that the dead cannot come back to us once they've crossed over.

I believe the reference in Psalm is a poetic picture, not an actual event. We are already "washed in the Blood of the Lamb", so there's no reason to wash our feet in the blood of the unsaved. I think that part is just figurative.

 

[Aaron]

Of course it's figurative. It is simply a way describing one's emotional response to the death of the wicked and the value he places on them.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Seems to me that the passage about Saul and Samuel does away with many of the arguments against messages from God through someone who has died.

God can use anyone, living or dead, that He chooses to use. It is unwise to every try to limit God.


I Samuel 28:11-14
Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!” And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.” So he said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Satanic, IMO. If this is the case, why didn't Abraham send someone to Lazarus' family...or better yet, allowed Lazarus to relay the message to his brothers?

The story of Lazarus is a parable. If a message had been relayed it would have negated the entire purpose and meaning of the parable.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

According the Scriptures, angels are the ministers of them who shall be heirs of salvation. If I yield to the Scriptures in that, I am not afforded the illusion that the spirit of my dearly departed has visited me in any way.

We also can't think that our loved ones, once they've left this life, if they were saved, have any thought for anything but the Father and His will. We may miss them dearly, but they don't miss us. They care nothing for us, unless we are in Christ as well. And on Judgement Day, if we are unsaved, there will be no pity from them, no sympathy, no sadness, no tears whatever for our sakes. But they will rejoice as they sit in righteous judgment of us and of the angels who fell, and they will wash their feet in our blood praising God that even in the death of sinners, He is glorified.

That is one of the sickest, most depraved things I've ever read.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

My precious Granny passed two years ago. We were very close, and her death impacted me deeply.

The day before her funeral, all the family gathered at the funeral home. I was the only one who could not go into the room where her body lay. The rest of the family (30-40 people) all went in to view the body and read the cards on all the flowers, but I found a private corner at sat and cried, overcome with grief. My body felt weak like water, as if I had no strength.

At that point, I felt a presence surround me, comfort me, and sooth my spirit. That presence gave me the strength to get up and keep going, and it stayed with me for the next few days. It was supernatural, but I knew it was there because I could not properly function of my own accord.

I cannot explain exactly what it was, but I believe God sent his angels to comfort me and carry me through that rough time. I would like to think that my Granny's spirit was there, encouraging me, but I have no scriptural basis to believe this. I do know that SOMETHING happened, and it cannot be taken away from me whether anyone else believes it or not.

I felt much the same way when my dad passed away in 2004. I didn't know if I could get through the funeral. But when they brought his body into the chapel, I suddenly took a deep breath, and when I exhaled, I was okay. It was like I breathed in the Holy Spirit of comfort.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I'll bet some of you folks on here really take pride in being God's "Right Hand Man". I wonder what it's like to be in such a lofty position? Really, I'd like to know.

Let me share this with you. On Christmas Eve, 1993, my 70 year old father was T-Boned by a pickup truck. Him and mom were returning home from the grocery store and got hit by a speeding motorist.

While in the ER the Lord spoke to me! I will not share any more detail than what I just said as some of you will accuse me of meeting with Satan or grasping at a New Age Agenda, or consider me a War Lock or some other kind of heathen. Never-the-less, yes, the Lord spoke to me and none of you are going to take that away.

Fourteen days later my dad died.

How dare any of you sit back on your righteous hind parts and sit in judgement of others? Some of you are despicable! Perfect examples of Two Legged Self-Righteousness in action. If Satan can speak with any of us, so can our Lord!

Now for sure I do NOT accept this nonsense of people being caught in the middle and need help finding the "Other Side". Or they can't find the "Light" and need our help. Or they come back and haunt their old home-stead. Or some preacher needs to "pray them through, or over, or whatever it is they claim to do". Mysterious phone calls in the middle of the night. Eerie knocks on the walls at night..., no, I don't hold to any of that mess.

I do know however that our Lord can and does speak to His Children in times of need. Our Lord can manifest His Greatness before us anytime He so desires. He did to me. In the ER. At the end of that hallway.

If it has never happened to you it's criminal to take a position that it must be, or had to be, or was Satanic in nature. The Lord opened a window to me that night in the Hospital for a brief second. Truthfully, I did not understand it all until a while after the funeral and in my quiet time the Glory of the Lord came rushing into my heart and mind like I've never witnessed before.

Some on here need to get a grip. Younger Christians certainly do need the wisdom of older Christians when things like this happen to them but to declare that it's all from Satan, is bad news.

Excellent post -- I totally agree!

 

[Iconoclast]

The story of Lazarus is a parable. If a message had been relayed it would have negated the entire purpose and meaning of the parable.

Even if you view it as a parable, Jesus would not teach an untruth in a parable, His word stands:

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Even if you view it as a parable, Jesus would not teach an untruth in a parable, His word stands:

Of course not. That is why no one was sent to the man's family. The message of Christ is to be taught to the living by the living. If a messenger had been sent the entire meaning of the parable would have been changed ... and thus untrue. If the living did not heed the message when they are told by living people, they will not believe if a dead person or a person raised from the dead tells them.

Luke 16:31
31"Abraham replied, 'If they won't listen to Moses and the Prophets, they're not going to be convinced by someone who rises from the dead.'"

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course not. That is why no one was sent to the man's family. The message of Christ is to be taught to the living by the living. If a messenger had been sent the entire meaning of the parable would have been changed ... and thus untrue. If the living did not heed the message when they are told by living people, they will not believe if a dead person or a person raised from the dead tells them.

CRAB T,

yes that is right...and yet when Jesus said.no one can go from there to us...some on this thread disagree and say they can. Jesus says...they cannot

so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
They cannot..they do not have the ability to.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CRAB T,

yes that is right...and yet when Jesus said.no one can go from there to us...some on this thread disagree and say they can. Jesus says...they cannot

so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
They cannot..they do not have the ability to.

Not arguing, but curious. What about Samuel and Saul?

Also they were no in heaven, so I would not expect God to use them.