HisWitness
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since Sted is scared to answer the question--why don't you do if for him ???
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Michael being Jesus
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since Sted is scared to answer the question--why don't you do if for him ???
DrJamesAch
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He's a 7th Day Adventist. Similar to Jehovah's Witnesses, but everything that he is using in this thread to prove Michael is Jesus is exactly the same arguments used by 7DA's, all the same proof texts and arguments.JW's can't face reality.
He's trying to get you to go to Joshua 5 because that is one of the proof texts that 7DA's take out of context to try and prove that since Jesus is said to be the captain of the host of the Lord, and that Joshua worshiped him, that being the arch angel and captain of the host is the same thing. He won't answer the verses that clearly refute these positions.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
JW's also use that reasoning. I have dealt with them in the past on this.
HisWitness
New Member
He's a 7th Day Adventist. Similar to Jehovah's Witnesses, but everything that he is using in this thread to prove Michael is Jesus is exactly the same arguments used by 7DA's, all the same proof texts and arguments.
He's trying to get you to go to Joshua 5 because that is one of the proof texts that 7DA's take out of context to try and prove that since Jesus is said to be the captain of the host of the Lord, and that Joshua worshiped him, that being the arch angel and captain of the host is the same thing. He won't answer the verses that clearly refute these positions.
since you got part of it right ill finish it for you-----------
Captain of the Host is Christ in Joshua 5(meaning Christ is Captain of the angels)
Rev. 12--states Michael and HIS angels fought against the dragon
this states Michael is the leader of the angels
Archangel means CHIEF of the angels.
Now I ask you how Can Christ be Captain of the angels and Michael be their leader at the same time if they are 2 different persons
the angels of heaven only has 1 captain(Leader)(Chief)
HisWitness
New Member
ill repeat this again im not a JW--don't even know what they believe....
I am a Baptist just like Spurgeon was :godisgood::godisgood:
I am a Baptist just like Spurgeon was :godisgood::godisgood:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
I knew you was taking that route. I told my wife several minutes ago that was where you were heading.since you got part of it right ill finish it for you-----------
Captain of the Host is Christ in Joshua 5(meaning Christ is Captain of the angels)
Rev. 12--states Michael and HIS angels fought against the dragon
this states Michael is the leader of the angels
Archangel means CHIEF of the angels.
Now I ask you how Can Christ be Captain of the angels and Michael be their leader at the same time if they are 2 different persons
the angels of heaven only has 1 captain(Leader)(Chief)
The problem with that line of thought is the word "host" is not referring to angels, but rather an army of persons.
tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh means "From 6633; a mass of persons (or figurative {things}) especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a {campaign} literally or figuratively (specifically {hardship} worship): - appointed {time} (+) {army} (+) {battle} {company} {host} {service} {soldiers} waiting {upon} war (-fare)."
Nowhere are angels mentioned in that chapter.
HisWitness
New Member
I knew you was taking that route. I told my wife several minutes ago that was where you were heading.
The problem with that line of thought is the word "host" is not referring to angels, but rather an army of persons.
tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh means "From 6633; a mass of persons (or figurative {things}) especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a {campaign} literally or figuratively (specifically {hardship} worship): - appointed {time} (+) {army} (+) {battle} {company} {host} {service} {soldiers} waiting {upon} war (-fare)."
Nowhere are angels mentioned in that chapter.
so you downgrade Christ to being captain over a earthly army and lift Michael above Christ as leader of angels of heaven ??
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
so you downgrade Christ to being captain over a earthly army and lift Michael above Christ as leader of angels of heaven ??
I am not downgrading Chzrist at all.
The fact is, that passage says nothing of angels. You interject angels into the verse to strengthen your false assumption.
Hebrews 1 proves Christ cannot be Michael.
It would do you good to answer my post. It would satisfy most of the posters posting here if you would clear your position up concerning your position on these fundamental doctrines. Instead of playing cat and mouse with others, and hiding behind bushes at every corner, come out honestly and say what you believe. Even if you think the questions are so obvious that every one on the board should already know what you believe, be clear and state it anyway--no ambiguities.HW
You are a full preterist.
You believe that Jesus has already come.
You believe that we presently live in a new heaven and a new earth.
Do you believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust?
Do you believe in a future coming of the Lord?
If Michael is Christ, is Christ deity, and conversely is Michael, an angel, deity?
Did Christ rise from the dead in a physical resurrection?
Did he return in a physical manner?
That is why I asked these questions--not to make a fool of you or demean you, but to clear the air. '
I would appreciate some honest answers.
1st thess. 4-16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first
the Lord shall descend with:
a shout
the voice of the archangel
trump of God
Three things. Unless you say that Jesus is also the trump of God?
HisWitness
New Member
I knew you was taking that route. I told my wife several minutes ago that was where you were heading.
The problem with that line of thought is the word "host" is not referring to angels, but rather an army of persons.
tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh means "From 6633; a mass of persons (or figurative {things}) especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a {campaign} literally or figuratively (specifically {hardship} worship): - appointed {time} (+) {army} (+) {battle} {company} {host} {service} {soldiers} waiting {upon} war (-fare)."
Nowhere are angels mentioned in that chapter.
could it have been the unseen host of heaven that surrounded the throne of God--that's an army ???
Jesus said on the cross that he could call that unseen host(army) and get 12 legions of angels to come
ARMY whether men or angels is an army--I think he talked about the unseen host in heaven
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
You may want to do some homework, HW. nowhere in the New Testament are the heavenly host said to be an army of warriors or even called into battle.
Yes, Jesus did say He could pray and God would send twelve Legion of angels. But he did not say they would be sent to fight.
God could use one angel to fight those in Pilate's court. He wouldn't need twelve legion.
Yes, Jesus did say He could pray and God would send twelve Legion of angels. But he did not say they would be sent to fight.
God could use one angel to fight those in Pilate's court. He wouldn't need twelve legion.
HisWitness
New Member
HW
You are a full preterist.
You believe that Jesus has already come.
You believe that we presently live in a new heaven and a new earth.
Do you believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust?
Do you believe in a future coming of the Lord?
If Michael is Christ, is Christ deity, and conversely is Michael, an angel, deity?
Did Christ rise from the dead in a physical resurrection?
Did he return in a physical manner?
1-has already happened and DEATH has been destroyed
2-done happened
3-Christ is deity
4-yes
5-yes and no
HisWitness
New Member
Well HW has done what I thought was the impossible, and that is to bring everyone on the BB together! I never thought I'd see the day.
It just proves that God can take even the most wicked and perverted things and use them for His glory!
:godisgood:
bless you amy :love2::love2::love2:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
"Already happened and death is destroyed."
Someone send me a shovel, my grandmother must be trying to get out of that grave.
"Already happened."
Then this means when we go to the grave, there his no hope whatsoever of rising again.
"Yes"
What about Michael? Is he deity?
"Yes and no"
Please explain.
Someone send me a shovel, my grandmother must be trying to get out of that grave.
"Already happened."
Then this means when we go to the grave, there his no hope whatsoever of rising again.
"Yes"
What about Michael? Is he deity?
"Yes and no"
Please explain.
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HisWitness
New Member
You may want to do some homework, HW. nowhere in the New Testament are the heavenly host said to be an army of warriors or even called into battle.
Yes, Jesus did say He could pray and God would send twelve Legion of angels. But he did not say they would be sent to fight.
God could use one angel to fight those in Pilate's court. He wouldn't need twelve legion.
don't you see a problem here with your reasoning ???
If Christ is Captain of a earthly host---should he not be the Captain of the heavenly ???
1-has already happened and DEATH has been destroyed
It has? What is your description of death being destroyed? Because I've seen numerous people pass away in the last few months and it seemed pretty real to me.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
no, but I see a problem with yours.don't you see a problem here with your reasoning ???
If Christ is Captain of a earthly host---should he not be the Captain of the heavenly ???
Michael was given that position. Michael commands the angels while Jesus sits on His throne
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Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Maybe you need a shovel too? :laugh:It has? What is your description of death being destroyed? Because I've seen numerous people pass away in the last few months and it seemed pretty real to me.
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