Millenium questions...

[robycop3]

I agree that in Zechariah 14 vs 4 Jesus touches the earth, but that is not the 2nd Advent (Coming), but the 3rd Advent (Coming) after the 1,000 years (after Armageddon's start), which then connects to the events of Revelation 20. Notice, that in Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20, New Jerusalem must come down to the earth, which never happens in the events of John 14 or 1 Thessalonians 4. We see the events of Armageddon (2nd Advent) begin in Zechariah 14 vs 2, and the proceeds to 1,000 years later (3rd Advent; Isaiah 24 with Revelation 20):

Isaiah 24 and Revelation 19-22 parallelism (short notes):

World Destroyed - Isaiah 24:1-20
High Ones on High - Isaiah 24:21
Kings of the Earth - Isaiah 24:21
Prisonsers in the Pit - Isaiah 24:22
Many Days - Isaiah 24:22
New Jeruslam/Zion - Isaiah 24:23
Reign Gloriously - Isaiah 24:23
Sun and Moon Ashamed - Isaiah 24:23
Remnant - Isaiah 4:3
Ancients - Isaiah 24:23

World Destroyed - Revelation 19:11-21; 16:18-21
Satan - Revelation 20:1-2
Kings - Revelation 19:19
Prison/Pit - Revelation 20:1-2
The Thousand Years - Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7
New Jerusalem/Zion - Revelation 21:2
King of Kings - Revelation 19:11,16
No Need of Sun or Moon - Revelation 21:23
Remnant - Revelation 22:14
Heavenly Elders Council - Job 1-2; Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16,14:3, 19:4​

Isaiah 25 and Revelation 20-21:

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.​

Read the rest of the parallels.

It also parallels to Psalms 37.

Armageddon, the gathering to war against the Lamb (and his body) - Psalms 37:14,12,35

The Day of the LORD, the final thousand years, beginning, middle and ending - Psalms 37:13
Final Destruction of the Wicked - Psalms 37:1,2,9a,10,20,22b,28b,34b,36,38

Heavens & Earth Made New, saints reign upon the earth made new, forever - Psalms 37:3,9b,11,18,22a,28b,29,34a,37​

It is dealing with normal earth time between the 2nd (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, etc) and 3rd Advents (Zechariah 14:1~; Revelation 20:7-11~) of Jesus Christ, known as "the Day of the LORD" (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 -- 2 Peter 3:10, tied in context to 2 Peter 3:8, which is citing Psalms 90:4) or "the last day" (John 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24, 12:48) throughout scripture, and ties into 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Hosea 6:2; Ecclesiastes 6:6; John 11:6.

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Rev 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.​

Two Jerusalem's will face off against each other. Old (Mt. Moriah) and New (Mt. Olivet).

See Zechariah 14:12-13,21 in connection to Revelation 20:9-10,11-15.

Yes Robycop3, I agree with you that "At the millenium's end" (sic), that the "CAMP OF THE SAINTS" is found to have come down "ON THE EARTH" (sic), and that "Satan" does indeed "mobilize an army", for those persons will have then (at the end of the 1,000 years, Revelation 20:5a) been resurrected to be deceived by Satan to lead a final assault on the New Jerusalem that just came down upon the Mount of Olives. So, I fully agree, Jesus does indeed come back just as He left, but it takes place in two stages, even as Jesus left in two stages ([1] John 20:17 (antitype Moses); [2] Luke 24:50-53; Acts 1:9-11; Psalms 24:1-10; Psalms 68:18; Ephesians 4:8, etc (antitype Aaron)).

I would agree, and even go beyond that, by saying, it is simply common reading (by guidance of the Holy Ghost of course).

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].​

The one is not the other. The first is a limited duration (1,000 years; see also Daniel 7:22d), and the latter eternal. The two locations are differing also, the first being in Heaven (3rd) with Jesus having been brought back to the Father's House as the bride, and the latter to have been given property by the Father to dwell with our Husband on the Earth made new, and having access to all the starry worlds on high in the Father's house being one again of the family.

What say you Robycop3 to what I just shared from scripture?

(ps Did you know that Peter S Ruckman teaches what you teach on this? I have his book right here. The WTS/JW teach a similar theology, I have their material here also.)

"Armageddon" will occur when the antichrist sends his army to attack the just-returned Jesus. There's no name given to the battle initiated by Satan near the end of Rev. 20.

You said in a previous post that earth would be desolate for 1K years, but yet you disprove yourself by citing Rev. 20:7-10.

Remember, the SAME GOD created ALL the Scriptures. You should put them together to better understand them, and not depend upon what some quack taught you. The Scriptures are mostly literal; if you believe them that way, your understanding of them will grow properly. Right now, your view is somewhat off. (Part of that is believing the KJVO myth.)

While Ruckman was a quack, even he got something right every now-n-then, same as even Hitler did.

 

[Yeshua1]

If the gospel is going forth to the nation's satan is bound that was what he was being bound for so he could not deceive the nations anymore

satan is deceiving across the earth today, Islam, Rome, word of faith etc!

 

[Alofa Atu]

Remember, Jesus & the saints will REIGN. If the earth was empty, who would they reign over?

Non-sequitur to the OP. However, your question again assumes something that the texts do not say. There is nowhere where the texts cited say that Jesus and the saints reign over the wicked. At all.

They reign in life and peace, over themselves, having "dominion" restored:

Mic_4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.​

DOMINION

Or here:

DOMINION -Sermon - brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Powerpoint here:

https://archive.org/download/dominion_202005/Dominion.pptx

1Co_4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:​

God in Heaven, along with all the Heavenly hosts (saints of Heaven, Angels, etc) ruled, and reigned a long time before there was ever wickedness (Satan) in appearing. Adam and Eve reigned as "gods" (knowing good), as "kings" ("crowned"; Psalms 8:5), though there were no wicked on earth yet.

You have a simple misunderstanding of what it means to "reign" in the context of the 1,000 years.

However, all of this about "reign" is simply not the OP topic, and is shifting the goal post, but I have answered you on it none the less.

Again, read the references I provided and you will clearly see that the earth is indeed emptied of humanity for 1000 years.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.​

It speaks of the 1,000 years desolation of the earth, yet God would not then "make a full end" at that time, since it becomes the place of dragons and owls (devil and angels) for that time, and at the end of the 1,000 years, it is then that God brings the end that comes to all sin and sinners.

Read these please:

Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38;
Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18;
Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:2-17.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The John 14 verses refer to the rapture, when Jesus will call the saints to Him, rather than Him coming to them.

I think you have a problem with simple reading of English. Look again:

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

 

[Alofa Atu]

You said in a previous post that earth would be desolate for 1K years, but yet you disprove yourself by citing Rev. 20:7-10.

I cited them (Rev 20:7-10) in the context of Revelation 20:5a:

Rev 20:5a "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

My position is as solid as ever Robycop3, whereas I do not see your position represented by those texts, at all. They clearly teach that the wicked humanity are all dead (from Cain to the last who were alive at the 2nd Advent, and so destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' second Advent (2 Thessalonians 2:8; Revelation 6:16, etc)) for those 1000 years, and Satan (along with his angels) are bound upon the earth to wander it, as a prisoner in a pit (Isaiah 24), awaiting execution. Once the wicked humanity (from Cain to the last) are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years, then Satan is able to deceive them one last time.

 

[Iconoclast]

satan is deceiving across the earth today, Islam, Rome, word of faith etc!

The nations have been deceived since the tower of Babel the gospel is now going forth from the Middle East all over the world

 

[robycop3]

I cited them (Rev 20:7-10) in the context of Revelation 20:5a:

Rev 20:5a "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..."

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

My position is as solid as ever Robycop3, whereas I do not see your position represented by those texts, at all. They clearly teach that the wicked humanity are all dead (from Cain to the last who were alive at the 2nd Advent, and so destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' second Advent (2 Thessalonians 2:8; Revelation 6:16, etc)) for those 1000 years, and Satan (along with his angels) are bound upon the earth to wander it, as a prisoner in a pit (Isaiah 24), awaiting execution. Once the wicked humanity (from Cain to the last) are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years, then Satan is able to deceive them one last time.

No, they don't. Humanity will go on, after Jesus returns. Most will become saints, but a few won't. But when Satan is loosed, he will deceive many mortals into following him.

Remember Isaiah 11:6 & 65:25.

 

[Alofa Atu]

No, they don't. Humanity will go on, after Jesus returns. Most will become saints, but a few won't. But when Satan is loosed, he will deceive many mortals into following him.

Remember Isaiah 11:6 & 65:25.

Read those texts again Robycop3, as the wicked are all deceived at the end of the 1000 years when Jesus and New Jerusalem come down. The righteous do not inherit the earth (made new) until after the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire, and God remakes the earth:

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2].

Notice Isaiah 2:4 in which it speaks of, “... they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” That is the earth “made new”, wherein it is said in Revelation 21:4, “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” The earth is not “made new” until after the 1,000 years, not before.

Notice Isaiah 11:4-10, in which the complete destruction of the wicked takes place first (as in Revelation 20:9-10, 11-15), and then follows the statements about the New Heaven and New Earth, which comes after the 1,000 years, see Isaiah 11:9, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” See Isaiah 11:6-8 and compare to Isaiah 65:20-25, 66:22-23. See that Isaiah 66:16 and its events, the destruction of the wicked in entirety, come before those other events, which take place in the earth “made new”.

Notice Amos 9:14-15 in which the events, “... they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them.”, and of the planting and building are in the earth “made new”, after the events of the destruction of the wicked in Amos 9:8, which does not take place until after the 1,000 years as Isaiah 24 and Revelation 20 (and other places) show.

Notice Zechariah 14 carefully, and see that this is not referring to the Second Advent (the beginning of the 1,000 years), wherein the “saints” are “caught up” to “meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17), as also John 14:3 says, “... I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”, but refers to the Third Advent, wherein the Lord Jesus comes “down” and touches the sin polluted earth, along with the saints and New Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives, as in Revelation 20, at the ending of the 1,000 years, and thus metes out judgment, executing all the wicked, and recreating the heavens and earth. See Zechariah 14:12-13,21 in connection to Revelation 20:9-10,11-15.

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3; Psalms 149:1-9]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10].​

 

[robycop3]

Read those texts again Robycop3, as the wicked are all deceived at the end of the 1000 years when Jesus and New Jerusalem come down. The righteous do not inherit the earth (made new) until after the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire, and God remakes the earth:

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2].

Notice Isaiah 2:4 in which it speaks of, “... they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” That is the earth “made new”, wherein it is said in Revelation 21:4, “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” The earth is not “made new” until after the 1,000 years, not before.

Notice Isaiah 11:4-10, in which the complete destruction of the wicked takes place first (as in Revelation 20:9-10, 11-15), and then follows the statements about the New Heaven and New Earth, which comes after the 1,000 years, see Isaiah 11:9, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” See Isaiah 11:6-8 and compare to Isaiah 65:20-25, 66:22-23. See that Isaiah 66:16 and its events, the destruction of the wicked in entirety, come before those other events, which take place in the earth “made new”.

Notice Amos 9:14-15 in which the events, “... they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them.”, and of the planting and building are in the earth “made new”, after the events of the destruction of the wicked in Amos 9:8, which does not take place until after the 1,000 years as Isaiah 24 and Revelation 20 (and other places) show.

Notice Zechariah 14 carefully, and see that this is not referring to the Second Advent (the beginning of the 1,000 years), wherein the “saints” are “caught up” to “meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17), as also John 14:3 says, “... I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”, but refers to the Third Advent, wherein the Lord Jesus comes “down” and touches the sin polluted earth, along with the saints and New Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives, as in Revelation 20, at the ending of the 1,000 years, and thus metes out judgment, executing all the wicked, and recreating the heavens and earth. See Zechariah 14:12-13,21 in connection to Revelation 20:9-10,11-15.

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3; Psalms 149:1-9]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10].​

The wicked are NOT destroyed in the LOF. They'll be there forever, as Scripture says.

The earth WILL be inhabited by both mortals & resurrected saints during the millenium, with Jesus present & in charge.

The New J won't come down til the millenium is over, Satan & the wicked are cast into hell after the Great White Throne judgment, & God remakes the earth's surface.

You need to study Scripture more closely, & quit believing the SDA & pentecostal garbage you've been reading, or was taught to you by some quack.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The New J won't come down til the millenium is over

Thank you.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The wicked are NOT destroyed in the LOF.

Yes they are, very plainly, as already shown to you on several occasions (as for instance - No Plans ), but that is irrelevant to the OP subject and do not expect for me to go any further with you here about it, derailing the importance of the subject at hand.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The earth WILL be inhabited by both mortals & resurrected saints during the millenium, with Jesus present & in charge.

Scripture please. You haven't provided any scripture for those beliefs yet. You have provided assumptions, but no scripture. So, please produce the scripture which says what you believe. Thank you. I will await your responses of scripture to consider them.

 

[37818]

Scripture please. You haven't provided any scripture for those beliefs yet. You have provided assumptions, but no scripture. So, please produce the scripture which says what you believe. Thank you. I will await your responses of scripture to consider them.

You have a problem understanding. The rule on earth takes place before the Judgement, Revelation 20:11. See Revelation 11:15, ". . . voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; . . ." And at the end of the 1000 years, Revelation 20:7-8, ". . .
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, . . ."

 

[Alofa Atu]

You have a problem understanding. The rule on earth takes place before the Judgement, Revelation 20:11. See Revelation 11:15, ". . . voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; . . ." And at the end of the 1000 years, Revelation 20:7-8, ". . .
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, . . ."

No, I understand just fine:

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.​

1000 years, in the pit/grave (they are not completely destroyed until the Lake of Fire at the end of the 1000 years).

Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.​

eternal, earth made new.

Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
​

This is seen in Daniel 2:

The "Kingdom of God" (which includes, righteouness (Psalms 119:172), peace (Psalms 119:165) & joy (Psalms 16:11; Jude 1:24) (Romans 14:17) does not exist on earth during the 1000 years (Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24:22; see also Psalms 37). In Daniel 2:34-35, there is seen a several phases or time events. In Daniel 2:34, there is seen the beginning of this:

"... a stone was cut out (of the mountain, vs 45; God's Heavenly Kingdom above) without hands (Mark 14:58; Colossians 2:11 (a stone was used to circumcise, and cut away; Exodus 4:25-26)), which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces." (Daniel 2:34)​

This is the destruction of the kingdoms of this earth by the return of Jesus Christ in the second advent, the stone (Zechariah 3:9; Revelation 5:6; Matthew 21:44; 1 Peter 2:4, etc) cut out of the Mountain without hands, and the timing is given in Daniel 2:35, being the end of the "summer" (Matthew 24:32; Mark 13:28; Luke 21:30) harvest and threshing (see Jeremiah 8:20, etc).

"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; ..." (Daniel 2:35)​

Then there is a period of 1000 years of desolate earth (see scriptures below), followed by the total destruction of all the finally impentitent who ever lived at the 3rd Advent of Jesus Christ with New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven above, with all the saints:

"... and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them:"

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." (Revelation 20:11)​

After that event, then will God re-create the earth and heaven, and then, and only then, will the saints dwell upon the earth made new:

"... and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." (Daniel 2:35)
​

There are phases of time for each event.

You have misunderstood Revelation 11:15, as it does not deal with the 1,000 years, but is very clear, in English (you speak and read English, yes?) when it says, "for ever and ever".

37818, is "for ever and ever" the same as "one thousand years"?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
​

Look at the context of Revelation 11:15, in vs 18:

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.​

Did you see the spread and time of events? Do you understand the structure of Revelation? I do -

https://archive.org/download/michael-the-archangel-x-6-appendix-6-daniel-the-revelation-compared-7-branch-candlestick/Michael the archangel [X6] - Appendix 6 – Daniel & the Revelation compared, 7 Branch Candlestick.pdf

Now, when will you address my texts, which I provided?

Read these please:

Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38;
Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18;
Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:2-17.

You see in the Old Testament, the land was to rest every 7th year. When Judaea/Jerusalem refused to obey God's law of resting the land, God brought judgment upon them, and the land was to rest 70 years (see Jeremiah) and no one was to work it. In the final 1000 years, the entire earth will lie "desolate" for that time, with no human inhabitant, since they have broken the everlasting covenant and refuse to keep sabbath (even now).

Isa_24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.​

Now, go read the other Isaiah passages I just cited above, which result because of this rebellion to God's Law.

 

[37818]

@Alofa Atu,
You are confused. The "forever and forever" are in the New Heaven and New Earth. Which comes after the Final Judgement, Revelation 20:11-15. Revelation 21.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The "forever and forever" are in the New Heaven and New Earth. Which comes after the Final Judgement, Revelation 20:11-15. Revelation 21.

Yes, I already know. You are confused about my position apparently.

 

[robycop3]

Scripture please. You haven't provided any scripture for those beliefs yet. You have provided assumptions, but no scripture. So, please produce the scripture which says what you believe. Thank you. I will await your responses of scripture to consider them.

For one, there's Rev. 11:15 & Rev. 20:7-8, as well as the fact that Jesus & the saints shall REIGN for the 1K years, with Jesus ruling with a rod of iron. That reign is not in heaven as Yahweh is there, reigning over it.

 

[robycop3]

Yes they are, very plainly, as already shown to you on several occasions (as for instance - No Plans ), but that is irrelevant to the OP subject and do not expect for me to go any further with you here about it, derailing the importance of the subject at hand.

So, evidently you don't believe these Scriptures:
Rev. 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev. 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[robycop3]

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[agedman]

John penned four books, lived longer than any apostles, and through his personal witness and teaching had effected folks living beyond the second century.

if one is to make excuse and not put trust in specific passages in which there is no reason to disturb the accuracy by reassignment to nebulous froth, then why should his other statements in the other books not be taken in such terms?

John taught the historical traditional pre-millennial views as did that great Bishop he personally schooled. EVERY Bible scholar of any credit does admit such as accurate.

I rarely use “Wikipedia” but this brief description of one alternative to the Apostle John’s teaching comes from the corrupt human motivation

At the time of the Counter-Reformation, the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar wrote a prominent preterist exposition of prophecy.[2][page needed][3] Moses Stuart noted in 1845 that Alcasar's preterist interpretation advantaged the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[4] and Kenneth Newport in an eschatological commentary in 2000 described preterism as a Catholic defense against the Protestant historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.[5]
​

To those who espouse a covenant approach that disregards the traditional pre-millennial should remember that the pre-millennial view was the single hope, concept, and teaching until history events changed a few prominent Roman Catholic teachers such as Augustine.

Disappointment in what folks think should happen is one of the sneaky lies the enemy of believers uses to distract from the truth and reliability of the promises of God… the same lie used to trick Eve.