millinial questions

//Let's hear it for the physical/literal Millennial Messanic Kingdom -- acoming to an earth near you just a tad more than 7 years from now.

YEA for JESUS!//

Other people said this in 1100.
I said this in 1952. I said it in 2008.
If I live to be 100 years old AND THE LORD TARRIES, I'll say this in 2043.

All it says is THE LORD WILL COME SOON.

The mention of this again by the party quoted above will constitute harrasment against me according to the laws of the State of OKlahoma.
I have not, will not ever say a specific hour, day, week, fortnight, month, year, decade, century, millennium, etc. I will however, always believe in the emminacy of the Lord's coming to get me out of this mess.

 

Focus, Bobby. The RAPTURE is imminent! Therefore, the 2nd coming could be in 7 years.

BTW, you claim that Christ already came and raptured the church. That, sir, is the offense you accuse Ed of committing COMMITTED BY YOU!

skypair

 

BBob,

Wow, TWO posts and a new page and you still can't look up the verses I cite and see if you are preaching ERROR!

Bob, are you not afraid of being "turned over to Satan that you may learn not to blaspheme" like Hymenaeus, 1Tim 1:20??? Are you not afraid that what you are saying will "eat as doth a canker" (2Tim 2:17) because you have "erred saying that the resurrection already past; and overthrow the faith of some?"

Bob -- WAKE UP!! You are the "man of God" here! We ought not judge you, but you ought to judge yourself to know whether you are of the faith.

"In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour." 2Tim 2:20 Bob, please consider which you are. raying:

skypair

 

I don't blame you, I would try to get out of it too, but you said, in 7 years from NOW, or a bit more.

I am still waiting for you and the others to give scripture where Jesus will reign ON EARTH, for this thousand years.

I am still waiting for you and others to give scripture where in this thousand year reign, there will be both soul and body.

BBob,

 

// I don't blame you, I would try to get out of it too, but you said, in 7 years from NOW, or a bit more.//

Obviously you will cut me no slack. I'm tired of playing your damned if you do & damned if you don't game. I'll let people who can read put you down.

There is no possible way that the Millennial Messianic Kingdom will start in less than 7 years from NOW, today, this current time. However, anytime (and NOBODY on earth knows it) after that, the Millennial Messianic Kingdom could start. It will be on earth.

For me to prove it from the scripture you would have to understand the logic of this:

-----------------------------
Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

This statement is true:
IF he endures to the end;
THEN he shall be saved.

Logic Dictates that this statement is
also correct because the first one was:

If he is not saved;
Then He did not endure to the end.

There are two statements that come from
this that are independent of the first
statement (I didn't say they were true or
false); I leave it up to the reader to
prove one of them true from the Bible.
If one is true, both are true [by the rules
of Logic] ):

IF he endures NOT to the end;
THEN he shall NOT be saved.

IF he is saved;
THEN he endures to the end.

Matthew 24:13 does NOT support the
truth of these last two propositions.
Some people think it does, but they
are wrong.

-------------------------------
An example where the second set of propositions
are not true, even though the original set
of propositions is true.

First set of propositions (True)
If you smoke; then you will die prematurly.
If you die NOT prematurely; then you
then you did NOT smoke.

Second set of propositions (False)

If you do not smoke; then you will not die prematurely
[it is false, you could die from a fall while
cleaning your gutters]

If you die prematurely; then you smoked.
[perchane you die prematurely cause
you got lung cancer from polution]

-----------------------------

 

Ok Ed, I will cut you some slack.

BBob,

 

And, generally speaking, EdSutton likes Allan's answer best, not that I necessarily agree with every bit of minutiae in it.

One likes one 'answer'; one likes another 'answer'.

Same difference, no? Each one of us has some opinion.

Ed

 

Yes, that is why we have the debates......

 

convicted1, may I say, I appreciate the humility you have shown here.

Let me, now, suggest you read Revelation. Don't worry that you do not understand it all. I'm certain I do not understand it all, and would guess that I have invested far more time in that book than any on this thread, primarily due to circumstance. I have been through it under five different pastors, in its entirety; actually taught through it one time in SS, sat through it with another teacher, in the same manner, and every pastor, the teacher, and I (not to mention the lesson writers in the SS books.) had some slightly different takes on most parts of the book. (We use the Bible book series in SS, where every book is covered once in every nine year cycle.) And I had a three-hour college class on Daniel/Revelation in Bible college, plus was the primary Grad assistant for the same class some three years later. And I would guess that I still have as many questions that are not answered, to my full satisfaction, as anyone. But I have received innumerable blessings from this.

Revelation is the one book and only in the Bible, to my knowledge, that has a specific promise of blessings for those who read it. (Rev. 1:3)

Happy reading and happy blessings!

Ed

 

I enjoy the debates, and do not especially mind when one does not agree with me, or vice versa.

However, I am annoyed when one post factual and historical errors, and am extremly annoyed by two particular 'pejorative slam-lines' - one that continues to appear here, namely thie first one, and another I saw that I will quote, as well. (One does not have to agree with some other's theology, but still does not have to resort to these tactics, IMO, even if they do so unwittingly.)

I realize this is a posted quote from another source. However, it is, at best, a conclusion, and the last sentence which is mainly in red, is nothing more than a pejorative statement, by that author, attempting to bloster his own ideas, and hence the continued citing of it is not necessary! BTW, part of that quote, that does not appear above, has historical errors in it, as well.

Again, a conclusion, at best, and the pejorative language is entirely unnecessary and uncalled for! Incidentally, I pasted them in exactly the font and coloring they appeared.

Ed

 

What you fail to realize is that many of us think you have the wrong understanding of history and scripture. As you said, we are both entitled to our own opinion.

Just because someone on here says they took a 3 hour college course and have studied, does not mean the rest of us have not had college courses and have studied for many years on the exact same subject, you claim to have such knowledge in.

I for one, believe a lot of your understanding that you have put forth, have came from the last 2 to 3 hundred years, for your understanding of Rev, and the understanding put forth in the 1-3 centuries, differ quite a bit from what you say the scripture means.

Everybody and his brother has an eschatology about the end times, and we have to all go with what we feel God give us as an understanding. I certainly am not going to put the understand of some man, above what I feel the Lord give me.

He that lacketh understanding, let him ask of God.

Paul= I never learned it of man and neither was I taught it, but it came from God.

I honestly believe with everything in me, that you and others have a misunderstanding of end times.

You say you are annoyed, well that includes the rest of us also. The long list you gave convicted1, of how you have studied, so that makes you the ultimate authority on the Rev, is hogwash.

Does (SS), stand for "Sunday School"???

BBob,

 

Nothing wrong with believing I and others have a misunderstanding of the end times. There are at least six to eight major ideas on eschatology. Obviously, since they differ, not all are correct. In fact, none of them may be, but obviously all cannot be correct.

If you actually read what I posted, you might have noted that I merely said I had spent a lot of time in Revelation, and was certain I did not understand all of it. I certainly do not claim to know everything, but I do (or at least should) know a few things, after being in the ministry for more than 40 years. And I do not believe I ever claimed to be any authority, by any stretch (unlike a couple of posters not on this thread, in the past), and in fact, aside from quoting some verses, noting a progression, did not even get into the book of Revelation, very much.

Yes, I did encourage convicted1 to read Revelation, and get the blessing it promises. I did not offer one suggestion of how he or she should take any of it. (See, Brother Bob, I do not know if that poster is even a male or female, for that doesnot matter, to me, at all.)

And yes, SS was my shorthand for Sunday School.

The same Bible that says "let one ask of God", also say "Study to show yourself approved", as well. It is not a case of one or the other, nor have I come close to suggesting that.

FTR, I came to most of the basic outline I now hold, over 40 years ago and, to my recollection, before I ever even heard any of the names of John Nelson Darby, Clarence Larkin, Lewis Sperry Chafer, H. A. Ironside, or C. I. Scofield. The one possibility that might not be correct, here, is that of Scofield, for someone may have said they had a "Scofield" Bible, but I do not remember it, if so.

Ed

 

I also, came to what I believe many years ago and did not know these people you listed, nor did I even know there had been a constant debate over the MK, since even before the 1st century.

Let me conclude by saying, we do agree on where our salvation comes from. We do agree on living a Christian life. We do agree on whether we live or whether we die, let it be in the Lord. We also agree that God's children are "one", even though we only see through a glass darkly now. So, let me say that I pray that God will bless both the Eds in this discussion, skypair, allan and all the rest that have had an input into this debate. If I have hurt anyone, please forgive me. My desire is to live with my Lord someday. May God Bless and keep you and your families and church.

BBob,

 

//What you fail to realize is that many of us think you have the wrong understanding of history and scripture. As you said, we are both entitled to our own opinion.//

And I guess i'm darn well welcome to all three of my opinions.

Ed: //Show me six opinions and I'll show you five Baptists //

 

Amen, Brother Brother Bob -- Preach it :thumbs:

Ed's rule of thumb: Go by the scriptures you understand and don't worry to much about the scriptures that you don't understand.

The part about edifying & uplifting one another are clear; the eschatological parts less clear.

Ed's Definition: 'EDify' - to make like 'Ed'