Miracles

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Petrel:
I was referring to when God through Moses struck Egypt with the plagues, and Pharoah's magicians mimicked each one. Of course it would have been more useful to reverse God's plague, but I guess they couldn't do that!

Plus demoniacs have been said to be able to tell the future and have superhuman strength, both of which are paranormal.

I don't know if these should really be called miracles, though. Perhaps supernatural interference?

Some people think Pharaoh's magicians did "tricks" but we don't really know. The Bible says they did it by magic arts. I think there is a limited power in the occult but it is not a miracle. Only God does miracles - miracles are lasting and glorify God. Occult powers take attention away from the true God or from the true Jesus and, I believe, are not lasting, such as in healing. Ultimately, such powers are destructive to the one using them and sometimes to the person who is the recipient (if there is one).

God's miracles are life giving; Satan's powers are death giving.

As far as the Acts 16 fortuneteller goes, I think that
1. It shows there is demonic power or influence in occult divination
2. The passage does not mean she really told the future; she may have said things about the future but we don't know if they came true.

I used to give future forecasts in astrology readings for people. There is a lot ot explain what seems to come true from that.

 

[Servent]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Personally, God has performed miracles in my life several times.

But, the one I always cherish the most is the miracle of my salvation.

AMEN,AMEN,AMEN

 

[SaggyWoman]

Whether or not I have faith, miracles happen. They usually strengthen my faith.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

God has performed many miracles just to keep me alive. Looking back I am so thankful that I have a family that believed in miracles.

 

[NomadsWife]

One week before my 10th birthday I broke my right wrist jumping rope. (Don't laugh!) I was in hospital for 2 days as a result of it since this was back in the days before they set bones and released you on an outpatient basis. My wrist hurt badly for two days. One day a couple from our church came to visit me in the hospital and the moment they walked into my hospital room, my wrist quit hurting and never hurt again. The couple were a godly couple and loved God, so I believe to this day that God healed me as a result of their prayers because my arm hurt so badly one minute and the next it didn't hurt all and has not to this day.

So yes, I have experienced a miracle in my life.

NomadsWife

 

[Plain Old Bill]

God acts as He wills.God does many things we can't explain.We call those things miracles to Him it's just an everyday practice He uses for our benefit and His glory.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
God does many things we can't explain.We call those things miracles

He also does many things we can explain, and they're miracles nonetheless. Just because they're explainable, doesn't mean they're any less miraculous.

 

[just-want-peace]

One week before my 10th birthday I broke my right wrist jumping rope. (Don't laugh!) I was in hospital for 2 days as a result of it since this was back in the days before they set bones and released you on an outpatient basis. My wrist hurt badly for two days. One day a couple from our church came to visit me in the hospital and the moment they walked into my hospital room, my wrist quit hurting and never hurt again. The couple were a godly couple and loved God, so I believe to this day that God healed me as a result of their prayers because my arm hurt so badly one minute and the next it didn't hurt all and has not to this day.

So yes, I have experienced a miracle in my life.

NomadsWife

And I firmly believe that if we were anywhere as close to God as we should be, this type of thing would be normal!!!!

 

[hopefullyhelping]

I have prayed for and received several miracles in my life and I completely and totally believe that God has answered my prayers, I have several family members who are alive today who would not have been if God had not answered my prayers.

 

[Marcia]

If everything wonderful is a miracle, then a miracle means nothing. A miracle is by definition a supernatural act of God, not explained by natural means.

 

[hopefullyhelping]

I am taking about real miracles where science had given up hope. Where someone should for all intents and purposes be gone and buried but through a miracle they made it. In fact Dr.'s said it is a miracle. Or in one case of internal bleeding it was a nurse who said miracle.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
If everything wonderful is a miracle, then a miracle means nothing.

That's not scriptural. It does not mean that a miracle means nothing. It means that miracles are abundant. Have we really become so jaded to everything God has given us?

A miracle is by definition a supernatural act of God, not explained by natural means.

That's a manmade view, not a scriptural view. A miracle is a work of wonder, not a work of magic. Jesus was the great physician, not the great magician.

Originally posted by hopefullyhelping:
I am taking about real miracles where science had given up hope.

Again, that's a manmade definition, not a scriptural definition. Where does it say that a miracle is onyl such when science has given up?? When we raise the bar to suit our expectations, we become oblivious to the obvious miracles around us every day.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
If everything wonderful is a miracle, then a miracle means nothing.

That's not scriptural. It does not mean that a miracle means nothing. It means that miracles are abundant. Have we really become so jaded to everything God has given us?

A miracle is by definition a supernatural act of God, not explained by natural means.

That's a manmade view, not a scriptural view. A miracle is a work of wonder, not a work of magic. Jesus was the great physician, not the great magician.
</font>[/QUOTE]John, please show me from the bible where what I say about miracles is wrong. I said nothing about magic. Also, you are falsely accusing me of being jaded just because I don't think that every thing that is wonderful is a miracle.

A miracle is a supernatural work of God - that is what it means scripturally.

Miracles are those acts that only God can perform; usually superceding natural laws. Baker's Dictionary of the Bible defines a miracle as "an event in the external world brought about by the immediate agency or the simple volition of God." It goes on to add that a miracle occurs to show that the power behind it is not limited to the laws of matter or mind as it interrupts fixed natural laws. So the term supernatural applies quite accurately.
http://www.probe.org/content/view/466/47/

 

[Marcia]

From the Int'l Standard Bible Encyclopedia:

The Biblical idea of miracle as an extraordinary work of God, generally though not invariably ("providential" miracles--see below, II, 6), transcending the ordinary powers of Nature, wrought in connection with the ends of revelation, is illustrated by the terms used to describe miracles in the Old Testament and New Testament. One class of terms brings out the unusual, exceptional, and striking character of the works, as pele', niphla'oth (Exodus 3:20; 15:11, etc.), teras, literally, "a portent" (in plural Matthew 24:24; Acts 2:22,43, etc.); another lays stress on the power displayed in them, as gebhurah, dunamis (in plural "mighty works," the Revised Version margin "powers," Matthew 11:20,21,23; 13:54; 14:2; 2 Corinthians 12:12, etc.); a third gives prominence to their teleological significance--their character as "signs," as 'oth (plural the Revised Version (British and American) "signs," Numbers 14:22; Deuteronomy 11:3, etc.), semeion (plural the Revised Version (British and American) "signs," John 2:11,23, and frequently; Acts 4:16,22; 6:8; Revelation 13:14, etc.). Another Old Testament word for "wonder" or "miracle" is mopheth (Exodus 7:9; Deuteronomy 29:3).

. . .They show that some power outside Nature, some supernatural power, has intervened. They are exactly described by the three words in the New Testament already mentioned. They are terata, "prodigies" or "wonders"; they are also dunameis, virtutes, "powers," or "manifestation of powers"; and finally they are semeia, "signs." The three conceptions are combined, and the source of such manifestations stated with them, in a pregnant verse of Hebrews:

"God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will" (2:4).
http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T6068

 

[hopefullyhelping]

Everyday when I pray I feel a peace and serenity come over me that makes me believe that all is well and that is the miracle, that through prayer everything is possible. The season and the earth all things are the miracle of God.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
John, please show me from the bible where what I say about miracles is wrong.

It is you who made the claim that miracles are by definition supernatural. Therefore it befalls you to provide scripturla support.

...you are falsely accusing me of being jaded just because I don't think that every thing that is wonderful is a miracle.

No, I'm accusing you of being jaded because you require miracles to be only supernatural as a requisite.

A miracle is a supernatural work of God - that is what it means scripturally... Baker's Dictionary of the Bible defines a miracle...

I submit that scripture makes no such claim. Because scripture gives no succinct definition, we must rightly divide the Word to derive it. When miracles in scripture occur, the are events in which God reveals himself with remarkable vividness. He reveals himself everywhere (Rom. 1:18-21, Psm. 19), but in miracle he provides a spectacular demonstration of his presence. I have no doubt that there are times when a miracle does indeed violate natural laws, but such a violation is by no means a presrequisite for something being a miracle. Even the ISBE says "The Biblical idea of miracle as an extraordinary work of God, generally though not invariably ... transcending the ordinary powers of Nature". So right there, it does not require that the laws of nature be broken, though you yourself require it.

Again, a miracle is a work of wonder. Works of wonder need not break the laws of the universe to be works of wonder.

 

[Marcia]

John, show me where in the Bible a miracle is not a supernatural act of God?

 

[Marcia]

Actually, since the consensus is that a miracle is a supernatural act of God, which I posted above and also learned in seminary, the burden is on you to show it isn't.

Parting the Red Sea -- this was supernatural
The plagues on Egypt -- supernatural
Turning Aaron's rod into a serpent -- supernatural
Jesus rebuking the sea and wind and they instantly stopped -- supernatural
Jesus turning water into wine - supernatural
Making the bitter water sweet at Marah in Exodus - supernatural act
Making water come out of a rock in Ex. - supernatural

I could go on and on.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Marcia:
John, show me where in the Bible a miracle is not a supernatural act of God?

It neither bans the supernatural, nor does it require it. I never said a miracle is not a supernatural act of God. I said that a miracle need not be a supernatural act of God all the time. Supernatural or not, a miracle is an act of God. Sometimes it's supernatural, sometimes it's not.

 

[Marcia]

John, Rom. 1.18-21 does not use the term miracle. Why did you post that? You have offered zero evidence for your claim that my claim is false.