Mistakes, lies, false witness,and such sins..

[JonC]

In my opinion, we can know. And yes, it goes both ways. I have little interest in trolling regardless of which side it comes from.

As for the issue(s) between you and @Iconoclast , I have been reading the various threads you two have been engaged in and it just seems to be a carousel that never stops. You are on record as stating you do not like him. @Iconoclast probably does not have a picture of you hanging in his living room. Hey, I can rattle off a half-dozen or so Baptist Board members who are not members of my fan club. Given my personality, that does not bother me in the least. However, it is not my desire to have enemies. Sometimes brothers cannot get along. It happens, even after meditation and prayer. What should be done in those situations? Paul wrote in Romans 12:18, "If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." If both parties in a dispute have done all they can ("so far as it depends on you") and their differences cannot be reconciled, separation may be the right choice. On a message board, not dialoguing with each other may be the wisest course of action. Certainly, this dance you and @Iconoclast have been doing does not speak well of either of you. Am I the only one that sees through all the innuendos and careful speech as to who is being spoken about? This thread has really plumbed the depths of ad absurdum. I guess I am rebuking both of you but I am doing so with Christian charity, not malice. Is enough not enough already?

My comments are not without purpose (it is not just self indulgence, poking the bear in the eye).

What I would like for @Iconoclast to realize is that he has been guilty of the things he is accusing others of. Those false statements are not different from the ones he is accusing (if he is speaking of me) me of making.

In other words, @Iconoclast is the pot calling the kettle, black.

What I have done is post inappropriately, arrogantly, pridefully, and without the love that should accompany my words. I have insulted @Iconoclast and he has insulted me. I own up to my failures. My intent here may be a little guilty pleasure, but not for the purpose of insulting @Iconoclast . Ultimately I want him to realize that he is doing the exact same thing he is accusing me of (he is bearing false witness against me and several others on this board).

For my part, I am at peace with @Iconoclast . I have been working very hard not to insult him, but I am engaging him in hopes he will recognize that he is allowing something as small as a discussion board to damage his witness and judgment. I forgave @Iconoclast long ago.

Do you not find it concerning that @Iconoclast seems so focused on what happened so long ago?

That is why I was saying we need to forgive regardless of the other person. I am not going to apologize for things I did not do - not because I am too prideful but because I do not think it would ultimately help @Iconoclast move on. He is carrying around this resentment and I believe others are not blind to the hatred that is festering in his heart as evidenced by this agenda (and it is an agenda) against me. Look at his posts to all of those I mentioned before. He treated them EXACTLY the same as he is treating me. The difference is most got fed up and left.

That said, I do appreciate your rebuke, @Reformed . You are right that we keep going on and on. I was enjoying the exercise, but I suppose it was at @Iconoclast 's expense. I was just working towards 130 posts.

 

[JonC]

jonC,

For me to respond to your last few posts I need you to restore that deleted post from just short of a year ago.
You know the post. Restore the original post, and post it here.
Let me read it again and see if I misread your post.
Then we can discuss it.
You want me to show my claims, but delete the posts and block access to your posts.

@Iconoclast ,

1. please consider that you are harboring resentment from a post you believe was deleted a year ago.

2. if you recall you may remember that the post you complained about being deleted was never deleted (that was the confusion at the time). I had made a tongue-in-cheek remark and decided it could be taken as offensive so I removed the remark (not the post itself). You misread the remark and wanted to reply to it but it was gone. You complained because you wanted to reply to the tongue-in-cheek remark because you found it offensive and it had been removed because I thought it may be considered offensive. Since you complained to the administration the post was restored to its original.

The post has been there in its original form for almost a year. It was restored when you complained because I thought it was not a big deal (it was a tongue-in-cheek remark).

3. You consistently complained, suggested that @Squire Robertsson and I could not be trusted and the remark may have been altered. The Administration (minus me) closed the complaint finding that your accusations were unfounded but that I knew the tongue-in-cheek remark could have been taken as offensive as evidenced by my choice to remove it (so I should have left it out to begin with).

4. Again, this was a year ago. Is there a reason you have been carrying this around for so long? This is what I mean by learning to forgive. You mistook my intentions back then and it has continued to color your judgment about me. That is why I had decided to remove my remark in the first place (I did not mean it as an insult but it was an unnecessarily smart aleck remark).

5. I am guilty of pride, arrogance, and insulting you (we spent a long time insulting each other). But I have been trying very hard over the past year (now a little over a year) to refrain from that type of engagement. I forgave you for the insults you tossed my way. I forgive you for the false accusations you have made. I am not defending myself, I am not going to rehash the past, I am just going to say that you misunderstood/ misjudged the situation but I forgive you.

I will say that you seem to be a VERY judgmental person. Perhaps you need to remove the log in your eye so that you can address the splinter in the eyes of others.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Icon, drop this line of conversation. The Admin Team (less JonC) investigated your charge and didn't find the post you claim to have been deleted. We can see deleted posts and look at the history of edited posts.

jonC,

For me to respond to your last few posts I need you to restore that deleted post from just short of a year ago.
You know the post. Restore the original post, and post it here.
Let me read it again and see if I misread your post.
Then we can discuss it.
You want me to show my claims, but delete the posts and block access to your posts.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, drop this line of conversation. The Admin Team (less JonC) investigated your charge and didn't find the post you claim to have been deleted. We can see deleted posts and look at the history of edited posts.

Hello Squire,
You might not find one post edited or deleted. [He does that often]
He deleted the WHOLE thread.
Can you find a whole thread that was deleted? If you can I would like to see if I read it correctly.
My complaint is that I was told that I lied, hallucinated, fabricated this whole spectacle.

It was at the end of January one year ago.


These were from feb1.

I asked a few of the men;
Iconoclast, Feb 1, 2019


Did Jon makes several posts disappear in which he suggested, Biblicist, Martin, myself and the rest of the Calvinist's, we're dishonest, untrustworthy, etc?
I know I saw the posting, but they were censored out???
I hate censorship, even if the person censors themselves He said something about insults????
Looked like they came from his keyboard.

which Biblicist also had seen but could not find the whole thread.;
His PM to me was offered to you during the "inquiry"

JonC admitted after much prodding that the thread did exist and he removed it,
I asked him several times to restore it during that inquiry. Why did you not ask him to restore it at that time Squire?

Squire....do you want the truth? Or do you want to just move forward and ignore the actual truth?

In this very thread he suggests it did not exist? He then says things about me personally and closes the thread as I go to respond.

Is this okay by your standards?
I could drop this whole line of questioning as I understand no one really wants to deal with such an issue.
The problem is....it does not address the root cause which continues unchecked.

 

[Iconoclast]

"JonC,

Let's look at a real example (not that this guy you speak of is not real, but I do not know that he is).

I think you do know him really well.

On this board you have disagreed with several members who were not Calvinists (some who were). A very quick word search shows a few people against whom you have made the claim on the public forum that they have an agenda against Calvinism. ( DHK, @Van , Revmitchell , steaver, DrJamesArch, @Skandelon Robert Snow, Winman, @Jordan Kurecki ,@HeirofSalvation[/USER] , [USER=2339]@James and me).[/user]

[B][COLOR=#330066]This is correct. They have a right to oppose it also.I defend their right to do so.[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE[B]]The statement that I have an agenda against Calvinism or Calvinists is a false claim. [/B][/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR=#330066]That is your opinion, and we each have one. You claimed to be a "Calvinist" about 50 times in the past year or two, and yet you by your own words, are not a Calvinist, not reformed. No one cares if you are or not, but do not say it is a false accusation when we have questioned it.[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE][B]By your standard, does this not mean that you have sinned against me with an intent as evil as murder?[/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=#330066][B]No, it means I have made a truthful observation.[/B][/COLOR]
[QUOTE][B]Since you falsely accused me of an agenda I do not hold on a public forum does that not make you guilty of bearing false witness against me?[/B][/QUOTE]

[B][COLOR=#330066]It was not false at all...it was accurate[/COLOR][/B].

[QUOTE][B]Is this not the same that you are complaining of with the guy on the other forum?
Does this not make you guilty of a sin listed in Proverbs 6 (which you clearly stated was not the case, adding another instance of the sin)?
Do you see what I mean now?[/B][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=#330066][B]Of course not my friend[/B].[/COLOR]..[B][COLOR=#ff0000]THOU ART THE MAN[/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE][B]You have a disagreement with some Christian who agrees with LDS doctrine but is not a Mormon on another forum where he follows you and posts only to you and lies about you and you seem to think he should confess and repent for sinning against you. But you have posted false things about people on this forum (and that can be evidenced simply by searching "agenda" and "iconoclast", and looking at come archived threads).

[/B]
[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR=#660033]I STAND BY WHAT i POST, AND IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY WOULD ADDRESS ANYONE ON THE LIST DIRECTLY AND UNFIltered.[/COLOR]

[/B]

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

My comments are not without purpose (it is not just self indulgence, poking the bear in the eye).

You can poke me in the eye, kick me in the butt, or anything else. One thing that will not happen is trying to twist what is said.

Reformed and others have expressed that they are tired of seeing this soap opera played out JonC. If you want the fire to go out, stop putting logs on it!
I have told you before and asked you dozens of times to leave it, stop it, and yet you carry on. I can adjust either way.

I asked you very simply to admit what you said, even if you retracted it, or melted down a bit..[which anyone can understand],
Instead, you make a personal series of attacks and when I respond you get all self righteous.
More people do not care because they are wary of it. it does not affect them,or they are apathetic to the issue.

 

[rsr]

The case has already been litigated in the appropriate place (among the moderators). It is time to let it go and put it out of our misery.

 

[JonC]

JonC,



You can poke me in the eye, kick me in the butt, or anything else. One thing that will not happen is trying to twist what is said.

Reformed and others have expressed that they are tired of seeing this soap opera played out JonC. If you want the fire to go out, stop putting logs on it!
I have told you before and asked you dozens of times to leave it, stop it, and yet you carry on. I can adjust either way.

I asked you very simply to admit what you said, even if you retracted it, or melted down a bit..[which anyone can understand],
Instead, you make a personal series of attacks and when I respond you get all self righteous.
More people do not care because they are wary of it. it does not affect them,or they are apathetic to the issue.

Your accusations are false, but I know you believe them to be true. We are at an impasse. Anything I could suggest would only exacerbate the situation. You have presupposed my intentions, made assumptions, and will not be moved.

Words are wind. I forgive you.

As always, you will remain in my prayers - not only that God gives you the ability to move on from this issue but that you will be safe in your travels.

JonC

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Icon, I can see when a thread has been deleted. And so can the other members of the Admin team. IN the Providence of God, we didn't find the thread or post that caused this aggravation. We would have restored it if we could have. So, with the concurrence of rsr. I am closing this thread.