Moderation is what helps- not teetotalism

[Luke2427]

And anidiot pastor is a danger to his congregation. I pity the people that sit under you.

nevermind.

Not worth it.

Just keep skipping church and pretending like you can't find one good enough for the likes of you.

Then no pastor will have to deal with your mania.

 

[Luke2427]

Looks like this thread is on its way to being closed. So, moving on.

So, Romans 14:1-4 establishes that what is weak or strong when speaking of weaker brethren is not their education or will power, as is commonly asserted, but their faith.

No, the text along with the parallel text, I Corinthians 8, makes it clear that the REASON the weaker brother's faith is weak is because of his deficiency of knowledge as I pointed out earlier.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
​

Again, these are all matters of faith and practice.

No, the problem is their THINKING.

That's what the words "esteemeth" and "persuaded" and "regardeth" mean.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

nevermind.

Not worth it.

Just keep skipping church and pretending like you can't find one good enough for the likes of you.

Then no pastor will have to deal with your mania.

Thats none of your business.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thats none of your business.

Actually EWF you've made it everyone's business by announcing it on BB many many times.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually EWF you've made it everyone's business by announcing it on BB many many times.

So what? Is that ingendered into this conversation now

 

[preacher4truth]

So what? Is that ingendered into this conversation now

It is true, and you've inferred things as well toward Rick. The thing is Rick has stated truth, yet you've merely made accusations to denigrate.

With all due respect, your track record has been to defame many ministers and many churches and whole denoms. Frankly it is shameful behavior and is nothing but straw man and over generalized accusations.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is true, and you've inferred things as well toward Rick. The thing is Rick has stated truth, yet you've merely made accusations to denigrate.

With all due respect, your track record has been to defame many ministers and many churches and whole denoms. Frankly it is shameful behavior and is nothing but straw man and over generalized accusations.

Ha ha...always glad to be of service...:laugh::godisgood:

 

[Aaron]

No, the text along with the parallel text, I Corinthians 8, makes it clear that the REASON the weaker brother's faith is weak is because of his deficiency of knowledge as I pointed out earlier.

It is a knowledge by faith, like the understanding that the worlds were framed by the word of God. Some knowledge can't be received until one has the faith to receive it. So, again, it's not their education or will power, it's their faith.

No, the problem is their THINKING.

Affected by doubts, i.e. a weak faith.

That's what the words "esteemeth" and "persuaded" and "regardeth" mean.

And?

 

[Luke2427]

It is a knowledge by faith, like the understanding that the worlds were framed by the word of God. Some knowledge can't be received until one has the faith to receive it. So, again, it's not their education or will power, it's their faith.

Paul could not have been clearer that the one is NOT weaker is the one with KNOWLEDGE.

1Now concerninga food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.b

4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eatingc in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged,d if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12Thus, sinning against your brotherse and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

How is the conscience weak? Because they do not have the KNOWLEDGE.

The warning is to not #1 let your accurate knowledge puf you up and #2 not to let your accurate knowledge which the weaker brother does not possess be a stumbling block for the weaker brother.

You keep using this word "education" as if I purporting that higher education is the only way to obtain knowledge that makes one stronger.

I have said no such thing.

 

[Aaron]

Right, a knowledge the reception of which requires a certain faith. You keep pretending Paul did not say faith. I use the word "education" to make a distinction between the kinds of knowledge.

 

[webdog]

Is it your position that any intake of alcohol will cause the drinker to lose sobriety?/QUOTE]

No, it is different for everyone. But some folks who call themselves Christians like to defend their buzz as if it is not a form of drunk. intoxication is intoxication and anything less than completely sober is sin. One drink with a meal is one thing but for the average person any more than that is a problem.

where does the Bible state anything but complete sobriety is sin? The bible is clear drunkenness is sin, but if we are going to now condemn everything causing a euphoric feeling, many things would be considered sin like sex, coffee, exercise, medications, etc. Drunkenness is complete loss of our faculties. Wine is praised in the Bible as gladdening the heart of man. That's not complete sobriety.

 

[Luke2427]

Right, a knowledge the reception of which requires a certain faith. You keep pretending Paul did not say faith. I use the word "education" to make a distinction between the kinds of knowledge.

KNowledge is the issue in the text.


Stronger brethren HAVE the knowledge and must be careful with it.

Weaker brethren do NOT have the knowledge and that is what makes them weaker.

 

[webdog]

Ha ha...always glad to be of service...:laugh::godisgood:

When did you become the anti drinking teetotaler?

 

[Aaron]

Moving right along

(I've been meaning to use the NLT. Forgot to change versions in the last post.)

14 I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.​

Why would someone have doubts about certain foods? There was no Monsanto in the First Century. For the Jew, centuries of law told him certain meats were unclean in and of themselves. For the pagan, the knowledge that something was dedicated to a demon through an idol.

Whatever the reason, it was not a trifling reason, like EWF's grief with my McDonald's Big Mac. It was a real matter of faith.

15 And if another believer is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died.
16 Then you will not be criticized for doing something you believe is good.
17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too.​

And here is the instruction on how the strong are to live their lives around the weaker brethren. There is no "at his house" or "while he is around" mitigation.

 

[Aaron]

KNowledge is the issue in the text.


Stronger brethren HAVE the knowledge and must be careful with it.

Weaker brethren do NOT have the knowledge and that is what makes them weaker.

Moving on. Paul said faith, and you are simply ignoring it.

 

[Luke2427]

Moving right along

(I've been meaning to use the NLT. Forgot to change versions in the last post.)

14 I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.​

Why would someone have doubts about certain foods? There was no Monsanto in the First Century. For the Jew, centuries of law told him certain meats were unclean in and of themselves. For the pagan, the knowledge that something was dedicated to a demon through an idol.

Whatever the reason, it was not a trifling reason, like EWF's grief with my McDonald's Big Mac. It was a real matter of faith.

15 And if another believer is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died.
16 Then you will not be criticized for doing something you believe is good.
17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too.​

And here is the instruction on how the strong are to live their lives around the weaker brethren. There is no "at his house" or "while he is around" mitigation.

There is no need for "at your house" in the text. God given common sense dictates it.

Thou shalt not commit adultery did not require "while breathing" for us to understand it.

YOU CANNOT OFFEND ANYONE IF THEY ARE NOT MADE AWARE OF ANYTHING YOU DO.

In Siberia there is a man who believes it is a sin to drink coffee. Does that mean that Aaron should never drink coffee anywhere for the rest of his life?????

 

[Luke2427]

Moving on. Paul said faith, and you are simply ignoring it.

Paul said KNOWLEDGE and you are ignoring it.

He said knowledge was the issue.

Paul said that.

Paul did.

Paul- the Apostle.

There... in the text.

Repeatedly.

Over and over again... Paul said it.

Paul... repeatedly.

Knowledege... that was the word Paul REPEATEDLY used to differentiate the weaker brother from the stronger brother.

Knowledge. There is it in the text. Anybody with a first grade education can see it.

Knowledge.

Paul said, "We have KNOWLEDGE..."

Paul said it several other times in that text too.

Knowledge.

Knowledge.

Got it yet?

 

[Aaron]

Paul said KNOWLEDGE and you are ignoring it.

He said knowledge was the issue.

Paul said that.

Paul did.

Paul- the Apostle.

There... in the text.

Repeatedly.

Over and over again... Paul said it.

Paul... repeatedly.

Knowledege... that was the word Paul REPEATEDLY used to differentiate the weaker brother from the stronger brother.

Knowledge. There is it in the text. Anybody with a first grade education can see it.

Knowledge.

Paul said, "We have KNOWLEDGE..."

Paul said it several other times in that text too.

Knowledge.

Knowledge.

Got it yet?

How is the knowledge received?

 

[Aaron]

There is no need for "at your house" in the text. God given common sense dictates it.

Thou shalt not commit adultery did not require "while breathing" for us to understand it.

YOU CANNOT OFFEND ANYONE IF THEY ARE NOT MADE AWARE OF ANYTHING YOU DO.

In Siberia there is a man who believes it is a sin to drink coffee. Does that mean that Aaron should never drink coffee anywhere for the rest of his life?????

Rom 14:7, 15:1-3 and 1 Cor 8:13 belie your assertion.

 

[Luke2427]

How is the knowledge received?

By revelation.

_______