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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Jul 19, 2020.

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  1. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Saving faith is a loaded term? Is there a particular denomination you affiliate with?
     
    #101 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    no its best to avoid denoms and isms
     
    #102 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    " saving faith " ok i mean it like its our faith that saves us , agree ?
     
    #103 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    You need fellowship. No one is an island.

    Saving faith is not a loaded term, it's basic Christianity. You need a pastor or elder, someone you can consult.
     
    #104 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  5. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Jesus saves.
     
    #105 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say I don't have a church or fellowship..I'm non denom and non ism ist .
     
    #106 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    amen . All those that freely believe of their own freewill recieve Jesus .
     
    #107 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  8. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    All churches have isms. The issues is not isms, but having the correct isms.

    Does you Church subscribe to the notion that saving faith is a problematic term?
     
    #108 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I stick to the bible . Its best to hold to biblical terms . What do you mean by 'saving faith ' ?
     
    #109 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  10. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Objecting to the term saving faith, would suggest otherwise. Does your pastor know you have a problem with this term?
     
    #110 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Does your pas
    Your failing to demonstrate your understanding of the term your using. I'm the one quoting the bible and using biblical terms . Are you at a heavy shepherding church?
     
    #111 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  12. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Of course he doesn't. If he did, I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
     
    #112 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Same for me if he teaches calvernism or Arminism.
     
    #113 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  14. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    I can see why. Both believe in saving faith.
     
    #114 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Again I've no idea what you mean by 'saving ' faith . Yes we are saved through faith . Yes we are saved when we believe the Gospel. What do you mean ?
     
    #115 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
  16. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Exactly my concern. This is Christianity 101.
     
    #116 Calminian, Jul 22, 2020
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Avoidance noted .
     
    #117 Barry Johnson, Jul 22, 2020
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="Barry Johnson,

    From a former thread;

    1. [​IMG]
      IconoclastWell-Known Member
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      Was reading this earlier tonight as posted on the other thread: by W.R. Downing
      human trust and self–determination      ,
      whereas saving faith is repeatedly described in the Scriptures as deriving from God. 166


      WHY NOT FORESEEN FAITH?

      There are at least seven reasons why Divine election to salvation cannot be based on foreseen faith or human prerogative:

      •       Such a view is decidedly unbiblical, and derives from a rationalistic approach to the Scriptures that calls into question the nature and prerogative of God.

      • To ground Divine election in foreseen faith is tantamount to saying that salvation is by works [human ability, self–determination] and not by grace (Rom. 11:5–6), as such faith would necessarily be meritorious.

      • It reverses regeneration and faith, making “faith” [works, mere human trust] the cause, and regeneration the Divine response.442 Such a view presupposes that man
      is not depraved or sinful by nature (Rom. 1:18–32; 3:9–18; 8:7–8; 9:16), that he possesses plenary ability to understand the Gospel (1 Cor. 2:14) and can savingly come to Christ apart from the regenerating grace of God (John 3:3, 5, 8; 6:37; 44; 65; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; 18:27; Eph. 2:4–5; Heb. 12:2).

      • It denies the imputation of Adam’s sin and its consequences—moral and intellectual depravity. It denies that true, saving faith is the gift of God and makes faith synonymous with mere human trust or self–determination (Eph. 2:1–10).

      • It denies that sinners are satanically–blinded so they cannot believe the Gospel (2 Cor. 4:4–7).

      • This view takes Divine election, and thus all of salvation, out of the context of the eternal redemptive purpose and fragments the scriptural teaching of the infallibility of the redemption of sinners. Divine election would lose the very reason for its great encouragement and assurance.

      • To base Divine election to salvation on foreseen faith would in reality render such an election absolutely unnecessary. God would have had no need to “choose” anyone, but merely to accept those whom he foresaw were willing!

    2. [​IMG]
      SovereignGraceWell-Known Member
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      ↑


      John 3:3, 5, 8; 6:37; 44; 65; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; 18:27; Eph. 2:4–5; Heb. 12:2).
      Click to expand...
      [​IMG]

      #2SovereignGrace, Apr 28, 2016
    • It denies the imputation of Adam’s sin and its consequences—moral and intellectual depravity. It denies that true, saving faith is the gift of God and makes faith synonymous with mere human trust or self–determination (Eph. 2:1–10).
    [​IMG]

    • It denies that sinners are satanically–blinded so they cannot believe the Gospel (2 Cor. 4:4–7).
    [​IMG]

    • This view takes Divine election, and thus all of salvation, out of the context of the eternal redemptive purpose and fragments the scriptural teaching of the infallibility of the redemption of sinners. Divine election would lose the very reason for its great encouragement and assurance.


    [​IMG]

    • To base Divine election to salvation on foreseen faith would in reality render such an election absolutely unnecessary. God would have had no need to “choose” anyone, but merely to accept those whom he foresaw were willing!
    [​IMG]
     
    #118 Iconoclast, Jul 22, 2020
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The faith that we place into trusting Jesus as our Lord is not produced within us, as that has to be given to us by God Himself!
     
    #119 Yeshua1, Jul 23, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Yes, everyone who believes in Christ has had that taught to them by the Holy Spirit, so it is gifted to them, without which they could not believe at all. It also begs the question who is being taught. As in are all taught or are only those God has chosen to know the truth are the ones He teaches.

    John 6 easily tells us the answers, if we simply believe what Christ says. Christ negates all other alternative views in verse 64-65 as those who depart the faith as unbelievers God has not granted them to come to Christ.

    64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
    66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
    68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
     
    #120 Scott Downey, Jul 23, 2020
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