Saving faith is a loaded term? Is there a particular denomination you affiliate with?
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Monergism/Synergism
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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Saving faith is a loaded term? Is there a particular denomination you affiliate with?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
no its best to avoid denoms and isms
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
" saving faith " ok i mean it like its our faith that saves us , agree ?
You need fellowship. No one is an island.
Saving faith is not a loaded term, it's basic Christianity. You need a pastor or elder, someone you can consult.
Jesus saves.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I didn't say I don't have a church or fellowship..I'm non denom and non ism ist .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
amen . All those that freely believe of their own freewill recieve Jesus .
All churches have isms. The issues is not isms, but having the correct isms.
Does you Church subscribe to the notion that saving faith is a problematic term?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I stick to the bible . Its best to hold to biblical terms . What do you mean by 'saving faith ' ?
Objecting to the term saving faith, would suggest otherwise. Does your pastor know you have a problem with this term?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Does your pas
Your failing to demonstrate your understanding of the term your using. I'm the one quoting the bible and using biblical terms . Are you at a heavy shepherding church?
Of course he doesn't. If he did, I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Same for me if he teaches calvernism or Arminism.
I can see why. Both believe in saving faith.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Again I've no idea what you mean by 'saving ' faith . Yes we are saved through faith . Yes we are saved when we believe the Gospel. What do you mean ?
Exactly my concern. This is Christianity 101.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Avoidance noted .
[QUOTE="Barry Johnson,
• It denies that sinners are satanically–blinded so they cannot believe the Gospel (2 Cor. 4:4–7).
• This view takes Divine election, and thus all of salvation, out of the context of the eternal redemptive purpose and fragments the scriptural teaching of the infallibility of the redemption of sinners. Divine election would lose the very reason for its great encouragement and assurance.
• To base Divine election to salvation on foreseen faith would in reality render such an election absolutely unnecessary. God would have had no need to “choose” anyone, but merely to accept those whom he foresaw were willing!
From a former thread;
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IconoclastWell-Known Member
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Joined:
Was reading this earlier tonight as posted on the other thread: by W.R. Downing
human trust and self–determination,
whereas saving faith is repeatedly described in the Scriptures as deriving from God. 166
WHY NOT FORESEEN FAITH?
There are at least seven reasons why Divine election to salvation cannot be based on foreseen faith or human prerogative:
• Such a view is decidedly unbiblical, and derives from a rationalistic approach to the Scriptures that calls into question the nature and prerogative of God.
• To ground Divine election in foreseen faith is tantamount to saying that salvation is by works [human ability, self–determination] and not by grace (Rom. 11:5–6), as such faith would necessarily be meritorious.
• It reverses regeneration and faith, making “faith” [works, mere human trust] the cause, and regeneration the Divine response.442 Such a view presupposes that man
is not depraved or sinful by nature (Rom. 1:18–32; 3:9–18; 8:7–8; 9:16), that he possesses plenary ability to understand the Gospel (1 Cor. 2:14) and can savingly come to Christ apart from the regenerating grace of God (John 3:3, 5, 8; 6:37; 44; 65; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; 18:27; Eph. 2:4–5; Heb. 12:2).
• It denies the imputation of Adam’s sin and its consequences—moral and intellectual depravity. It denies that true, saving faith is the gift of God and makes faith synonymous with mere human trust or self–determination (Eph. 2:1–10).
• It denies that sinners are satanically–blinded so they cannot believe the Gospel (2 Cor. 4:4–7).
• This view takes Divine election, and thus all of salvation, out of the context of the eternal redemptive purpose and fragments the scriptural teaching of the infallibility of the redemption of sinners. Divine election would lose the very reason for its great encouragement and assurance.
• To base Divine election to salvation on foreseen faith would in reality render such an election absolutely unnecessary. God would have had no need to “choose” anyone, but merely to accept those whom he foresaw were willing!
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SovereignGraceWell-Known Member
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John 3:3, 5, 8; 6:37; 44; 65; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; 18:27; Eph. 2:4–5; Heb. 12:2).
Click to expand...
#2SovereignGrace, Apr 28, 2016
• It denies that sinners are satanically–blinded so they cannot believe the Gospel (2 Cor. 4:4–7).
• This view takes Divine election, and thus all of salvation, out of the context of the eternal redemptive purpose and fragments the scriptural teaching of the infallibility of the redemption of sinners. Divine election would lose the very reason for its great encouragement and assurance.
• To base Divine election to salvation on foreseen faith would in reality render such an election absolutely unnecessary. God would have had no need to “choose” anyone, but merely to accept those whom he foresaw were willing!
The faith that we place into trusting Jesus as our Lord is not produced within us, as that has to be given to us by God Himself!
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Yes, everyone who believes in Christ has had that taught to them by the Holy Spirit, so it is gifted to them, without which they could not believe at all. It also begs the question who is being taught. As in are all taught or are only those God has chosen to know the truth are the ones He teaches.
John 6 easily tells us the answers, if we simply believe what Christ says. Christ negates all other alternative views in verse 64-65 as those who depart the faith as unbelievers God has not granted them to come to Christ.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”