Jesus is teaching truth Steaver. They do not believe it.What is the reason Jesus gives for why they do not believe?
It is a simple question .Try and answer it......I will help you
they believe not because they are not _____!
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Monergists & Synergists: Divide or Unify?
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Jesus is teaching truth Steaver. They do not believe it.What is the reason Jesus gives for why they do not believe?
It is a simple question .Try and answer it......I will help you
they believe not because they are not _____!
...they believe not the truth of TULIP because they are not sheep? Yes, that is what you have been saying and that is what I have been pointing out now for two months.
He is not being facetious at all. He used Matt 13, another saved verses lost passage, to defend his comments that one becomes a Calvinist the same way one becomes a Christian. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97186
Fact is you still did not post what I actually said.the p art you posted.....my words......is not the same as what you said is it.
let me Make it simple......for you. In the quote you claim was word for word....bold the part where I said.........no tulip
that is not to hard to do.....is it!
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Seriously!!!!!!! My question was on TULIP!!!!!!! Your answer was John 10. Good heavens!!! You need some help understanding how debate goes brother.....
You and PT are failing to answer the question.
What reason did Jesus give as to why they believe not?
Both of you feel free to answer....
So now you admit that I did not say those words......Word for word.
I am not that interested in your speculation......I am interested in getting to the answers you want.
Why they believed not what??? TULIP or Jesus' words??
Is that your only hope to squirm out of what you posted? Really? Maybe you would like a redo. Tell you what I'm going to do. I am going to create a new thread with my original question and give you a chance to respond in a more accurate way since you believe you have been misrepresented. We'll see if you can let out scripture that is about the lost verses the saved this time.....
Tony,
I am always careful about speaking for someone else, so let me use my own words. A person does not need to be a Monergist to be a Christian I do believe Synergism is wrong, but there are different levels of Synergism. For instance, I believe Pelagius was a rank heretic. If someone were to embrace full Pelagian theology then I would fear for their soul. But what of those in the tradition of Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah, or Charles Stanley? All three of these men are Synergists. Does that mean they are unsaved? Was I unsaved as a Synergist, only to be saved when I became a Monergist? The answer is a resounding, "No!" It has been my experience that the average pew sitter has no idea what the Monergism vs. Synergism debate is all about. I am not about to condemn their souls to perdition. Salvation is still by grace alone, by faith alone, through Christ alone. If a sinner hears that message, the message of the Gospel, they can be born again. That is what this Monergist believes.
Ok......now the question is....what was Jesus teaching them?
All 5 points are on display in the passage.
Really? So then it is TULIP you are referring to when you answered my question with No....and John 10. And thus, those who do not believe TULIP (Jesus' points) are not Jesus' sheep. Checkmate!
PreachTony
Active Member
Your quotes are from John 10, in which a group of Jews question the works of Christ. They came to Christ saying "How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly." (John 10:24)
Jesus replies by saying:
John 10:25-27 said:
He made it clear that they did not believe because they were not His sheep. The arrogant position you are propounding is that your doctrine is "the truth" and because we do not believe it then we are not His sheep. That is the position you are advocating, whether you intend to or not.
Brother Icon, it is ok to say what you believe to be true. You don't have to try to mask it and pretty it up somehow. It's not your own reasoning that leads you to this final conclusion that no belief in TULIP = No sheep. It is Calvinism itself that leads you there.
SBM has gone even further into it, you can't just have a little and let the rest on the table, well, you can try I guess, but if your going to go down the road of Calvinism you must let it have it's way and let it lead you into those dark places. Hopefully, those dark places will stir a repentance in your heart towards a God of Love for ALL.
Calvinism has lead you into this belief about those who do not embrace TULIP, you simply allowed it to take you there. Many Calvinist try to have it both ways. You are being faithful to where the doctrine must lead you. Now that you see where it leads you have another choice to make. Continue on and end up like SBM, or repent and let the Spirit fill your heart with love and joy again!!!!
raying: I hope this back and forth has caused you to take another look at just what you have embraced.
Don't be mad at me, I'm only the messenger, an instrument used of the Holy Spirit to help those who have lost their way. It is meant for your good......
SBM has gone even further into it, you can't just have a little and let the rest on the table, well, you can try I guess, but if your going to go down the road of Calvinism you must let it have it's way and let it lead you into those dark places. Hopefully, those dark places will stir a repentance in your heart towards a God of Love for ALL.
Calvinism has lead you into this belief about those who do not embrace TULIP, you simply allowed it to take you there. Many Calvinist try to have it both ways. You are being faithful to where the doctrine must lead you. Now that you see where it leads you have another choice to make. Continue on and end up like SBM, or repent and let the Spirit fill your heart with love and joy again!!!!
raying: I hope this back and forth has caused you to take another look at just what you have embraced. Don't be mad at me, I'm only the messenger, an instrument used of the Holy Spirit to help those who have lost their way. It is meant for your good......
no Stever . it looks like you still don't get it....but it's become obvious to me you really don't want to get it you don't want truth
Pt....I do not think you understand this portion of scripture if that is all you have on it.
convicted1
Guest
Regardless, goats have no desire for Him. You talk to them and they'll blow you off, scoff at you, kindly reject you, or just tell you they're not ready. Even sheep did that for a time.
The sheep are sheep, regardless their belief of free will, God's sovereignity, or some position in between. We have different beliefs because we all have finite minds and are not infallable beings. I came to my beliefs via studying, prayer, and what I believe through the leading of the Spirit. You've come to yours via the same methods I'm sure. Our thoughts and beliefs don't hinder God's plan whatsoever. He has sheep having gone astray, and none of them will die lost...
PreachTony
Active Member
So go deeper, Icon. Tell me where I am wrong on this. Don't leave me with such a comment. You have opportunity to show me the error of my ways.
See, the way I'm looking at it, I've actually quoted more of that portion of scripture than you have. I actually provided the context of the scripture, and I showed how, in my estimation, you are applying such scripture to those who disagree with your doctrinal stance. Show me where I'm getting wrong.
PreachTony
Active Member
Agreed. We've both stated that we came to our beliefs through the same method. I've stated elsewhere that I believe we will learn just how far off course we actually are on our many and varied interpretations once we stand before God. See, regardless how you or I believe about free will or predestination, ours is just the interpretation of a limited, corrupted mind. We must rely on the Spirit to revelate our minds through study, meditation, and prayer.
so your saying the whole chapter is only about the one question and is no other teaching here at all .
its versus to fill in the chapter we can't learn anything here thats no teaching nothing .
nothing to comment on it's just about the one question
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