Moral Law Verses Ceremonial Law

[BobRyan]

You are so blind you will not admit it.
Moody does not believe in keeping the Sabbath.

Let us now contrast your wild speculation with D.L Moody says about himself.

Originally Posted by D.L Moody
THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day[/b], and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

[b]I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, [b]He did nothing to set it aside[/b]; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

That is an outright lie.

A lot of smoke and heat on your part via your standard "pronouncement" solution to problems that your statemenst encounter in the real world - but very little light.

D.L Moody specifically denies some of the very wild speculations you engage in on this doctrine.

He argues that the Sabbath WAS binding on mankind in Eden.

He argues that it IS just as binding today as it ever was.

He argues this specifically about the 4th commandment itself.

He condemns the idea that the 10 commandments were "reduced to nine".

Basically every one of your "squirm and wriggle" tactics were condemned in Moody's arguments. And yet when you made those wild arguments - you bashed SDAs as if they were the only ones that could see how flawed your arguments are.

so all you now have left is the fact that Moody loosely defined the Sabbath commandment so that it could also apply to Sunday.

He uses the word "Sabbath" as a synonym for "Sunday."

He does that at times - but it is difficult to bend his text to the point of wildly imaginging that he thinks the Seventh-day of Genesis 2 and Exodus 20 was "Sunday" or that all Christians are wrong to think that Jesus was raised on the first day of the week.

Obvious points that I have been waiting for you to fess up to in your recent rants.

No chance - eh?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GE: There's no such thing!

HP: Explain your thoughts.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66 "from Sabbath to Sabbath... shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the OT.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the NT

Gen 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh-day and made it HOLY in Eden itself. Adam was not a Jew.

Is 56 has a specific blessing for gentiles who choose to worship God and honor the Creator of mankind by keeping the Lord's Holy day.
6 ""Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''

Something to consider:

Part One:

If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the ten commandments, never found in the book of Genesis?

Genesis 2 would be a good place to see the word for "sanctify" and "rest" used both in Ex 20:8-11 and in Genesis 2:3.

John Wesley –
The commencement of the kingdom of grace, in the sanctification of the sabbath day, Genesis 2:3 . He rested on that day, and took a complacency in his creatures, and then sanctified it, and appointed us on that day to rest and take a complacency in the Creator; and his rest is in the fourth commandment made a reason for ours after six days labour. Observe, 1. That the solemn observation of one day in seven as a day of holy rest, and holy work, is the indispensible duty of all those to whom God has revealed his holy sabbaths. 2. That sabbaths are as ancient as the world. 3. That the sabbath of the Lord is truly honourable, and we have reason to honour it; honour it for the sake of its antiquity, its great author, and the sanctification of the first sabbath by the holy God himself, and in obedience to him, by our first parents in innocency.See note at "Ge 2:1 See note at "Ge 2:1
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/wesleys-explanatory-notes/genesis/genesis-2.html


Matthew Henry
The eternal God, though infinitely happy in the enjoyment of himself, yet took a satisfaction in the work of his own hands. He did not rest, as one weary, but as one well-pleased with the instances of his own goodness and the manifestations of his own glory.II. The commencement of the kingdom of grace, in the sanctification of the sabbath day, v. 3. He rested on that day, and took a complacency in his creatures, and then sanctified it, and appointed us, on that day, to rest and take a complacency in the Creator; and his rest is, in the fourth commandment, made a reason for ours, after six days’ labour. Observe, 1. The solemn observance of one day in seven, as a day of holy rest and holy work, to God’s honour, is the indispensable duty of all those to whom God has revealed his holy sabbaths. 2. The way of sabbath-sanctification is the good old way, Jer. 6:16. Sabbaths are as ancient as the world; and I see no reason to doubt that the sabbath, being now instituted in innocency, was religiously observed by the people of God throughout the patriarchal age. 3. The sabbath of the Lord is truly honourable, and we have reason to honour it—honour it for the sake of its antiquity, its great Author, the sanctification of the first sabbath by the holy God himself, and by our first parents in innocency, in obedience to him. 4. The sabbath day is a blessed day, for God blessed it, and that which he blesses is blessed indeed. God has put an honour upon it, has appointed us, on that day, to bless him, and has promised, on that day, to meet us and bless us. 5. The sabbath day is a holy day, for God has sanctified it. He has separated and distinguished it from the rest of the days of the week, and he has consecrated it and set it apart to himself and his own service and honour.



Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
Gen 2:3 –
3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002

Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath. Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath?

Why is it that no one before Moses is told to Love their neighbor as themselves.

Why is it that no one before Moses is told not to covet.

Why is it that no one before Moses is told not to commit adultery

Why is it that on one before Moses is told..

Clearly that is not a form of exegesis or establishing bible doctrine.

The guesswork that supposes that the Sabbath was NOT sanctified and made - made God's Holy Day in Genesis 2:3 ends when we see that Christ affirmed this point in Mark 2:27 as does the text of Ex 20:8-11

If the fact that God wrote the 10 commandments on stone proves they are forever, then whatever happened to the two stone tablets that God gave Adam ...

Again - your question is not a form of Bible support for doctrine - but we do notice that God commands Israel to obey his Laws, statutes and commands - and also affirms in Genesis 26 that Abraham was one who obeyed His Laws, Commands and Statutes.

Why is the Sabbath the only one of the ten commandments that are said to be "throughout your generations", the usual phrase that indicates it was a temporary ceremonial law only for the Jews?

The guesswork that suggests this is temporary - "ends" when we see that God's Word specifically says in Isaiah 66 that even in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath...shall all mankind come before Me to worship".

Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?

In the NT - the ONLY example we have of a weekly day of worship is Sabbath. This is true even in the post-cross section of the NT See Acts 13 - Sabbath after Sabbath not only Christians but all in that town who choose to hear the Word of God can worship the one true God of Genesis 1.

If Sabbatarians will boldly quote "scholars" who are really Bible trashers and skeptics

Surely Matthew Henry, John Gill, John Wesley, J-F-B, D.L Moody are not now to be called "Bible trashers".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Part Two:

If the Sabbath is a moral law, why did Jesus say that David, the priests, a man with his donkey could all break the Sabbath without sin? Mt 12:1-14; Mk 2:23f, Lk 13:10-17; 14:1-6 Jn 5:8-18; 7:19-24; 9:14-16.

If the Sabbath is a moral law, why did God grow tired of the Jews keeping it and told them to stop keeping the Sabbath? Isa 1:13-14 Did God ever grow weary of anyone not committing adultery or murder, and tell them to be immoral and kill?

If the Sabbath is a moral law, how could Jesus break it without sinning? Jn 5:18

If one of the distinctions between the ten commandments was proven by the fact they were written by the finger of God, why did Moses copy them out twice with his own hand?

That last one was more frivolous than usual -- I just had to note that one!!

God said "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God"

Hint: Those of us who old to "sola scriptura testing" of doctrine do not use a "don't believe whatever God's prophets wrote" argument.

The Jews accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath - some Christians like to take that same approach. But Jesus is the Creator - that MADE His own Sabbath "a holy day" in Gen 2:3 - and in Matt 5:17-20 Jesus directly attacks his Jewish accusers who were saying that He was breaking the Law of God.

My recommendation is that Christians today not take up the Pharisee's accusations against Christ in that regard.

In Isaiah 1 - God does not say "please continue to worship Me - but not on Sabbath" as the less-than-serious question you clipped-and-pasted into your post would have it.

In Isaiah 1:11-15 their prayers are condemned, their sacrifices are condemned, their appeals to God, feasts, and even the entrance into His courts for worship (vs 12) are condemned - BECAUSE they are in a state of rebellion.

Your less-than-serious question in the quoted text above "appears" to argue that anything God rejects in Isaiah 1 - from a people in open rebellion against God - is a statement saying that God rejects all those forms of worship.

Hint - in the case of Isaiah 1 - that includes prayer itself!!

Thus the question was not intended for the serious Bible student that would actually take the time to "look" at Isaiah 1 to see if the argument had any merrit at all.

Jesus argued that those priests and disciples doing the Lord's Work on "His" Holy Day - were not violating the Sabbath command. Not in the NT and not in the OT. Service to God is permitted on HIS Holy Day as it turns out. (A point that even the Jews had to admit as being biblically valid).

If only the 10 commandments we can "live", then why does Ezek 20:11 say this of the "ceremonial law", "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live." (Ezek 20:11)?

Something to consider.

I have made no argument at all saying that the only part of God's Word that Christians are to take seriously is that which is written on stone -

Perhaps your post was not even directed toward my positions here - but "just in case".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Let us now contrast your wild speculation with D.L Moody says about himself.
Bob

Let's not. There are only a few things to consider.
1. Moody is not the Bible; why do you treat him as yours?
2. You say you believe in sola scriptura; why are you presenting sola Moody?
3. I am not interested in hearing Moody's arguments (as I have told you before), I am interested in hearing what the Bible says.
4. It is evident that you cannot show a single verse in the Bible where it commands Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath, and that is why you resort to people like Moody. However that defeats your own principle of sola scriptura, doesn't it.
5. In reference to Moody, you shouldn't refer to him anymore, for he doesn't believe in keeping the Sabbath. Don't say he does for that would both be hypocritical if not a down right lie. He uses the word "sabbath" and Sunday interchangeably. He did not and never did keep the Sabbath. Don't say that he did and slander his name.

Having said all that: Stick to the Word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

2. You say you believe in sola scriptura; why are you presenting sola Moody?
3. I am not interested in hearing Moody's arguments (as I have told you before), I am interested in hearing what the Bible says.
4. It is evident that you cannot show a single verse in the Bible where it commands Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath

Here it is "yet again" -

Is 66 "from Sabbath to Sabbath... shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the OT.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the NT

Gen 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh-day and made it HOLY in Eden itself. Adam was not a Jew.

Is 56 has a specific blessing for gentiles who choose to worship God and honor the Creator of mankind by keeping the Lord's Holy day.
6 ""Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''

Oh no wait! this is not a command to "Foreigners to join themselves to the LORD, to minister to Him, to Love the name of the Lord, to BE His Servants, to KEEP from profaning the Sabbath".... (in the DHK fictional rendering of scripture) -- no no! For there was "Salvation apart from the LORD" in DHK's fictitious tales.



At some point I would be interested to know what part of your posts that you actually take seriously.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

5. In reference to Moody, you shouldn't refer to him anymore, for he doesn't believe in keeping the Sabbath. Don't say he does for that would both be hypocritical if not a down right lie. He uses the word "sabbath" and Sunday interchangeably. He did not and never did keep the Sabbath. Don't say that he did and slander his name.
.

That is what DHK said about Moody - in his usual papal-pronouncement model.

Now here is what Moody says about Moody on that same topic --

Originally Posted by D.L Moody
THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbathduring the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day[/b], and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

[b]I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, [b]He did nothing to set it aside[/b]; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

oops forgot -- one more note from Moody for readers to "compare" with the "thus saith DHK" pronouncements so common on this subject.

D.L Moody
Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D.L Moody specifically denies some of the very wild speculations you engage in on this doctrine.

He argues that the Sabbath WAS binding on mankind in Eden.

He argues that it IS just as binding today as it ever was.

He argues this specifically about the 4th commandment itself.

He condemns the idea that the 10 commandments were "reduced to nine".

Basically every one of your "squirm and wriggle" tactics were condemned in Moody's arguments. And yet when you made those wild arguments - you bashed SDAs as if they were the only ones that could see how flawed your arguments are. So while I am more than happy to differ with Moody on a wide range of topics - your own creative "Adventists" are the only ones that notice the blunders in my argument - is debunked by simply pointing to Moody's references to your very arguments. Since you brought that "Adventists are the only" kind of argument up - I am offering proof to the objective unbiased readers - that once again you are engaged in fiction and hoping that merely "pronouncing" it true - will make it believable.

so all you now have left is the fact that Moody loosely defined the Sabbath commandment so that it could also apply to Sunday.
----------------




And as I have said half a dozen times (for those posters that read the posts) - D.L Moody's comments indicate a certain freedom to edit the 4th commandment to apply to whatever day one chooses.

DHK has objected to Moody's method on that point - as have I.

But on many of Moody's other points - he flatly condemns DHK's methods and arguments.


(Hence DHK's -- let us not speak of Moody, let us pretend that Bob is the only person that sees the flaws in the DHK-fictions posted here).

 

[DHK]

Here it is "yet again" -



Oh no wait! this is not a command to "Foreigners to join themselves to the LORD, to minister to Him, to Love the name of the Lord, to BE His Servants, to KEEP from profaning the Sabbath".... (in the DHK fictional rendering of scripture) -- no no! For there was "Salvation apart from the LORD" in DHK's fictitious tales.



At some point I would be interested to know what part of your posts that you actually take seriously.

in Christ,

Bob

I do not see one command in the present tense that requires believer right now to keep the Sabbath Day. Do you? The answer is NO. So why do you say there is?

 

[BobRyan]

Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

And for those who do read the Ten Commandments and discover that the 4th commandment is one of them ... we have "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19. And of course the Saints post-cross at the end of time are "Keeping the Commandments of God" as we see in Rev 14 and this was even true of some of the saints just after the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.

Then of course we have this post Cross fact - that in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" - Isaiah 66.

And the fact that in Rev 14:7 Worship to God is still called for based on the Sabbath Creation memorial argument that we are to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water"

(to name a few).

And in Acts 13 we have gentiles meeting "Sabbath after sabbath" to hear the Word of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath.

And for those who do read the Ten Commandments and discover that the 4th commandment is one of them ...

We already know from Exodus 31:13-18 that the fourth command was given to the Jews and their generations forever and not to the Gentiles. So even if it was written with the other nine, it is still not applicable to us.

we have "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

"The commandments of God" concerning marriage.
You don't like reading the context of the chapter do you. It makes you very deceptive. Are all SDA's like this?

And of course the Saints post-cross at the end of time are "Keeping the Commandments of God" as we see in Rev 14 and this was even true of some of the saints just after the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.

The "commandments of God' can only be defined by their context, as we see in 1Cor.7:19 (marriage). The same phrase used in the book of Revelation undoubtedly has a completely different context and meaning. You haven't even referred to the context; why then trust you with the meaning??

Then of course we have this post Cross fact - that in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" - Isaiah 66.

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath, is there?

And the fact that in Rev 14:7 Worship to God is still called for based on the Sabbath Creation memorial argument that we are to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water"

No command for present believers to worship on the Sabbath, is there?

And in Acts 13 we have gentiles meeting "Sabbath after sabbath" to hear the Word of God.

No we don't. In Acts 20:7 they are meeting on the first day of the week.
In Acts 2 they are meeting every day of the week.
In Romans 14, Paul says that some esteem one day above another; another man esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
That tells us that the Sabbath is no more holy than any other day of the week.

 

[BobRyan]

And in Acts 13 we have gentiles meeting "Sabbath after sabbath" to hear the Word of God.

No we don't. In Acts 20:7 they are meeting on the first day of the week.
In Acts 2 they are meeting every day of the week.
In Romans 14, Paul says that some esteem one day above another; another man esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

1. In Acts 20 there is NO meeting at all that is identified -- there is only "personal savings" each person "lays by himself" saves his own funds each week at the start of the week ... "weekday one".

2. Acts 2 is not a weekly meeting sequence. It is a daily practice done for a short period of time.

3. Romans 14 makes no mention at all of the Creation Sabbath - its reference is to the annual feast holy days of Lev 23. The text says that one man observes ONE of them ABOVE the others while another man observes ALL. - The "observes none" idea you sugges is not found there at all. (Hint there was no such thing as observing 360 days each year as a holy day).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I do not see one command in the present tense that requires believer right now to keep the Sabbath Day. Do you? The answer is NO. So why do you say there is?

Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

And for those who do read the Ten Commandments and discover that the 4th commandment is one of them ... we have "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19. And of course the Saints post-cross at the end of time are "Keeping the Commandments of God" as we see in Rev 14 and this was even true of some of the saints just after the 1260 years of the dark ages as we see in Rev 12.

Turns out -- the 4th commandment is one of the "Commmandments of God".

The "commandments of God' can only be defined by their context, as we see in 1Cor.7:19 (marriage). The same phrase used in the book of Revelation undoubtedly has a completely different context and meaning.

Sadly for your argument - it was already debunked by noting these inconvenient details in 1Cor 7 --

1Cor 7
17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches.


18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

20 Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.

21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.
22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord's freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ's slave.
23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
24 Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.


Here Paul addresses the issue of Jewish Christian vs Gentile Christian
He also addresses the issue of Christian slave vs Christian free-man.

In this case the "calling of God" is a reference to the Gospel coming to the lost and to their being saved. Paul speaks of their remaining in the condition in which they were saved - through the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sweeping all those conditions aside (Jew vs Gentile for example) he simply says "but what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

What is interesting is that Paul is not saying that "marriage is slavery" or that "marriage is for both circumcised and uncircumcised". He is addressing the state in which a person comes to Christ - married, or Jew or Gentile, or slave or free.

The "Calling" in 1Cor 7 is not "a CALL to get married" as some so rashly speculate in a wild sacrifice-all defense of man-made-traditions..

Paul argues the "remain in the state in which you were called" into the Gospel - if married stay married (even if your spouse is an unbeliever) - if Gentile stay gentile, if free stay free.

Then of course we have this post Cross fact - that in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" - Isaiah 66.

And the fact that in Rev 14:7 Worship to God is still called for based on the Sabbath Creation memorial argument that we are to "Worship Him who MADE the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water"

(to name a few).

And in Acts 13 we have gentiles meeting "Sabbath after sabbath" to hear the Word of God.

And of course that is the only weekly meeting sequence affirmed by the NT.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66 "from Sabbath to Sabbath... shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the OT.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the NT

Gen 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh-day and made it HOLY in Eden itself. Adam was not a Jew.

Is 56 has a specific blessing for gentiles who choose to worship God and honor the Creator of mankind by keeping the Lord's Holy day.
6 ""Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''

In that last text - (Is 56) we have the call to gentiles to
1. join themselves to the LORD
2. To Minister to Him
3. To Love the Name of the LORD
4. To be His servants
5. To keep from "profaning" the Sabbath.

And sure enough - it is the same thing in the New Earth where from "Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "All mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66.

No wonder Jesus could say in Mark 2 that the "Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"

As Paul himself says to the saints of Corinth "but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

 

[DHK]

Bob, I suggest you read my post again. Your response makes no sense at all. Either that or you don't know the Scriptures.

1. In Acts 20 there is NO meeting at all that is identified -- there is only "personal savings" each person "lays by himself" saves his own funds each week at the start of the week ... "weekday one".

This is a primary example of what I am talking about. You have this confused with another verse. There is nothing spoken about "personal savings." If you can find that in Acts 20:7 please show me.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
--They broke bread; Paul preached; he continued to preached until midnight. Continue reading. There is much more to this story. This was a long service that they had and nothing is spoken of money.

2. Acts 2 is not a weekly meeting sequence. It is a daily practice done for a short period of time.

There is no weekly sequence here, whatever you mean by that. They met daily. One day was no more important than any other.

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

3. Romans 14 makes no mention at all of the Creation Sabbath - its reference is to the annual feast holy days of Lev 23. The text says that one man observes ONE of them ABOVE the others while another man observes ALL. - The "observes none" idea you sugges is not found there at all. (Hint there was no such thing as observing 360 days each year as a holy day).

It doesn't have to specifically say the Sabbath.
One man may have preferred to worship on the Sabbath. That was his choice.
One man may have preferred to worship on Sunday, the first day of the week. That was his choice.
Another may have chosen to worship every day of the week, and that was his choice. God has ordained that every day is equally the same, and that no day should be honored above another.
In many Muslim nations, even the SDA's must worship on Fridays for that is the only day that the people can gather on a six day work week with no religious freedom to have time off from long work hours the rest of the week. I know. I have seen it.

 

[DHK]

In that last text - (Is 56) we have the call to gentiles to
1. join themselves to the LORD
2. To Minister to Him
3. To Love the Name of the LORD
4. To be His servants
5. To keep from "profaning" the Sabbath.

And sure enough - it is the same thing in the New Earth where from "Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "All mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66.

No wonder Jesus could say in Mark 2 that the "Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"

As Paul himself says to the saints of Corinth "but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

You can go around in circles Bob, but you still haven't showed any specific command that tells believer to keep the Sabbath. You have lost this one.

 

[BobRyan]

DHK - I keep leading you to water in that Is 56 text and you keep ignore the text "AS IF" there is "some other option" than "Loving God"

Some OTHER way of life other than "ministering to Him"

Some OTHER way of life other than choosing to "Join yourself to the Lord".

You insist on some happy fiction where all of that is apparently just "some nice suggestions"

What I find amazing - is that you seem to imagine that this point is not glaringly obvious to the reader.

That to me is facinating.

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

DHK - I keep leading you to water in that Is 56 text and you keep ignore the text "AS IF" there is "some other option" than "Loving God"

Some OTHER way of life other than "ministering to Him"

Some OTHER way of life other than choosing to "Join yourself to the Lord".

You insist on some happy fiction where all of that is apparently just "some nice suggestions"

What I find amazing - is that you seem to imagine that this point is not glaringly obvious to the reader.

That to me is facinating.

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

There is no command that I have seen, or that you have shown to me, in Isaiah 56 or in any one verse in the entire Bible that commands any Gentile Believer of this generation to worship on the Sabbath.

In this you have terribly failed. Remember Bob, Millions of believers don't even have an OT. They only have the NT translated into their language. The gospel is found in the NT. We don't need the OT to share the gospel with the lost. Thus every OT reference you give is moot. What is the gospel for this generation today. It is not found in the OT. If it was the Wycliffe Bible Translators and other such organizations would make sure that the OT was translated before the NT, but that is not the case is it? The two most important books that are translated into other languages are John and Romans. After that the rest of the NT.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66 "from Sabbath to Sabbath... shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the OT.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind" in the NT

Gen 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh-day and made it HOLY in Eden itself. Adam was not a Jew.

Is 56 has a specific blessing for gentiles who choose to worship God and honor the Creator of mankind by keeping the Lord's Holy day.
6 ""Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''

In that last text - (Is 56) we have the call to gentiles to
1. join themselves to the LORD
2. To Minister to Him
3. To Love the Name of the LORD
4. To be His servants
5. To keep from "profaning" the Sabbath.

And sure enough - it is the same thing in the New Earth where from "Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "All mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66.

No wonder Jesus could say in Mark 2 that the "Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"

As Paul himself says to the saints of Corinth "but what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

Some OTHER way of life other than "ministering to Him"

Some OTHER way of life other than choosing to "Join yourself to the Lord".

You insist on some happy fiction where all of that is apparently just "some nice suggestions"

What I find amazing - is that you seem to imagine that this point is not glaringly obvious to the reader.

That to me is facinating.

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

So your avoidance of the difficult questions posed for your position above - is to ignore the details that do not fit your bias.

There is no command that I have seen, or that you have shown to me, in Isaiah 56 or in any one verse in the entire Bible that commands any Gentile Believer of this generation to worship on the Sabbath.

So how was the gentile believer in Is 56 - to be saved "according to the text". ?

Or are you saying that while "all mankind" (that would include gentiles) are to worship God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

And while the gentiles of Is 56 were to keep from profaning God's Sabbath --


And while "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" in the NT - Heb 4...

That "right now" God has called a halt to all of this -- just while you and I are talking??



in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

So your avoidance of the difficult questions posed for your position above - is to ignore the details that do not fit your bias.

Oh, that's a good one coming from you Bob. How many of my difficult questions have you ignored because the details do not fit your bias?

So how was the gentile believer in Is 56 - to be saved "according to the text". ?

Or are you saying that while "all mankind" (that would include gentiles) are to worship God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

And while the gentiles of Is 56 were to keep from profaning God's Sabbath --


And while "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" in the NT - Heb 4...

That "right now" God has called a halt to all of this -- just while you and I are talking??

Here is a question. Let's see if you can keep bias out of the equasion and give an answer.

Is "keeping the Sabbath" part of the law of Moses?

What did the council in Acts 15 declare about Christians keeping the law of Moses as pertaining to a means of salvation?

 

[DHK]

Bob I am going to look at this situation from the present time.
First, What is the gospel? As a Christian, how do you understand what the gospel is?
Second, How would you present this gospel message to someone who doesn't have a Bible, has never owned a Bible, and has never heard the gospel. (I was 20, and once was in that position).

Is 66 "from Sabbath to Sabbath... shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

This is not a command for any NT believer to keep the Sabbath. Remember we are talking of the present time. What is the gospel? How does this relate to the gospel? How does this help in telling others what the gospel is?

Gentiles were considered part of "mankind"

in the OT.

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath.
However, this is not part of the Gospel is it?
How does this benefit an unsaved man in his understanding of the Gospel message? How will it help him to get saved?

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath--none.
Is this a part of the gospel?
Will it help in the message to bring someone to Christ?

Gentiles

were considered part of "mankind" in the NT

So what?
It is still not a command to keep the Sabbath.
Neither is it a part of the gospel message.
Does it help in bringing a man to repentance and faith in Christ?

Gen 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh-day and made it HOLY in Eden itself. Adam was not a Jew.

There is no command here to keep the Sabbath. You are failing on every count.
How is this a part of the gospel message?
How does it help in bringing the lost to Christ?

Is 56 has a specific blessing for gentiles who choose to worship God and honor the Creator of mankind by keeping the Lord's Holy day.
6 ""Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''

There is no command here for believers to keep the Sabbath at this time.
Is this part of the Gospel message?
Will it help an unsaved person to get saved today?

So your avoidance of the difficult questions posed for your position above - is to ignore the details that do not fit your bias.

Take a pill and swallow your own medicine.
You avoid our questions--most of the time.

So how was the gentile believer in Is 56 - to be saved "according to the text". ?

Isaiah was written 700 years B.C. What believers are you talking about. Christ wasn't even born then? The prophecy is referring to a different time period; not now. I don't accept your interpretation, neither EGW's interpretation.
Is it the gospel? How?
How would you use this passage to lead a person to Christ? Please demonstrate.
There is no command here for present-day believers to keep the Sabbath is there/

Or are you saying that while "all mankind" (that would include gentiles) are to worship God "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

Do we live in a new earth? If you think that, then you are deceived.
There is no command for any believer or any person that is not a Jew to keep the Sabbath.

And while the gentiles of Is 56 were to keep from profaning God's Sabbath --

What of Isaiah 56, a passage written 700 B.C. Does it apply to today's time? No. Is it the gospel message? Is that the passage that you would lead a person to Christ?

And while "there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" in the NT - Heb 4...

And is this a passage that commands a person to keep the sabbath? NO.
There is no command here, and there is no gospel message here.

That "right now" God has called a halt to all of this -- just while you and I are talking??

Context, Bob. Context.
It makes all the difference in the world. And you choose to ignore it. You have done so in every single passage quoted.
There is no command to keep the Sabbath, and it seems as if you are quite ignorant about the true message of the gospel.