More J6 need to know info

I disagree.

We are not to become ungodly to fight the ungodly (we do not fight evil with evil).

I believe that we are to be kingdom people. The kingdom is present in its people. We are faithful even when that faithfulness does not achieve a secular victory.

When we lie and cheat in order to defeat an enemy that lies and cheats then the we become no better than that enemy.

If the Right is legitimate then it would not have to use misinformation.

But more importantly, Christians are not to resort to evil in order to fight evil. We simply do not fight evil with evil.

 

Not at all.

There are legitimate concerns (@Reynolds has pointed out several). I agree that the Left is weaponizing the judicial system (against Trump and against those who were simply protesting in Jan 6). I also agree that there is a double standard when compared to the Floyd riots.

BUT I do speak up when Christians repeat misinformation. The reason is that I believe it is wrong for Christians to spread misinformation even if it is to "fight evil with evil".

Secular politics have made too many Christians forfeit Christ in their daily lives.


My view is that facts matter. Sure, the Left will repeat facts when it suits their agenda. That does not mean the Right should deny those facts (as you seem to suggest).

The only "spin" that I have repeated is that the Democrats are using the FBI as a weapon against those who support Trump. That is my assessment, but it is not the only conclusion. And it is not the position of the government.

Repeating actual facts, which is what I did, is not a "spin". Those I mentioned who have been sentenced to prison for their involvement in Jan 6 are evil people who are traitors, not patriots. That is based on fact.

But most were simply protesting and being given probation for daring to step in Capitol grounds is extreme.

 

@canadyjd ,

We need to look at "spin". Spin in terms of misinformation depends on an agenda.

The Left spins the riots of Jan 6 to be an insurrection.

The alt-right spins criminals who are by definition traitors and anti-patriots to be heros.

My agenda is to simply look at facts.

You suggest here that stating facts about a few of the men arrested is repeating government spin. I think that itself is misinformation (that you are attempting to ignore facts and hold to some type of subjective truth).

I have not made conclusions about Jan 6 as a whole.

The Left makes everybody there (and all who support Trump) out to be insurrectionists. The alt-Right makes all three to be patriots just protesting.

Both are equally wrong.

The facts show that most who went to hear Trump went to hear the speech. Many went to protest peacefully. But many (specifically two groups) went to riot.

Those who beat police officers, who planned to riot, who wanted to overthrow the government, who wanted to "kill Pence", who vandalized the US Capitol are criminals. They are not heros.

George Floyd was not a hero. Babbitt was not a hero (she was shot while engaged in criminal activities. A discussion can be had over the amount of force used in both cases, but the sheeple on each side are engaged in misinformation to make a criminal into a hero.

Facts matter.

 

I understand. You misunderstood my post and position.

Regarding my post, I am simply saying a peace in danger of being destroyed by statements is not a peace worth holding.

Regarding my position I am a conservative who opposes big government, supports Trump's platform (and believes he is at least one of the best Presidents we have had in my lifetime), and believe blatant criminal behavior should not be tolerated by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. I believe the FBI needs to go (keep state agencies, if the state so desires). I believe the Department of Education needs to go (that is not a federal responsibility). I believe in a very limited federal government and a strong state government. I don't even believe the Federal government should be able to tax individual citizens.

What I term the alt-right is the extreme right that spreads misinformation to try to advance its agenda. I term traitors to the US as alt-right (our nation's political system is founded on compromise with the hope that the middle ground will best represent the will of the States as a whole). The alt-right seeks to destroy the nation of the nation as a whole disagrees with its ideologies).

But insofar as principles, I hold conservative Right views (and supported Trump when I voted).


The alt-right is not defined by support for Trump or the GOP. Rhodes is a member of the alt-right. He posted on his militia's site that he would turn his attention to what he need to do as the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers to prepare for what comes after Trump fails to do his duty. This was a detailed plan to overthrow the US Government by violence (also posted on the site).

The alt-right is a political ideology where the minority rules the nation for the nation's own good (as long as the minority holds their values).

 

I also think we agree politically and religiously.

Your conclusion that not being involved in secular politics equates to apathy or madness is incorrect.

I hesitate to advise people to be involved and vote. This is a matter I leave up to one's conscious and convictions. I do not vote (religious conviction). But I advocate people to prayerfully consider their voice, when to use it, and for whom.

I hope that those who do vote do so in accordance with Christian values. I think this would be for the GOP or an Independent candidate (my "hot topic", when I voted, was abortion...I am very anti-abortion).

But each person has to vote, or abstain from voting, in good conscious as obedience to God.

 

I agree here (that Christians are to take a strong stance against sin).

But that isn't what we were talking about.

I was saying that Christians should not misinform or lie to advance a political agenda.

It was in this way I objected to fighting fire with fire.

When we lie, post misinformation, make criminals into heros, and spread false propaganda to feed the "sheeple" then we become just as much a problem as the Left.

I do not understand why so many on the Right cannot simply state facts (all of the facts). It seems to me that IF the Right is in the right that just relying on truth would bear that out.

What it appears (to me) is that the leaders of the extreme right does not truly believe their position. Otherwise they would not have to resort to misinformation. And the "sheeple" are willing participants (they ignore facts and simply repeat the propaganda they hear from their masters).


I gave several examples - Babbitt was not entering the hall....even though there are videos and photos showing her enter the hall. Rhodes was a peaceful protestor unjustly jailed....even though he posted that they were going to violently overthrow the government. Enrique Tarrio was just there to protest....even though he directed people to storm the Capitol and took credit for the riot. Dominic Pezzola was just a protestor....even though he attacked a police officer and broke windows out of the Capitol.


Both sides have their extremes elements that misinform their disciples to forward their agenda. It is these extreme elements that I reject.


I suspect you and I agree on the following:

1. Those who vandalized the Capital need to be charged.
2. Those who beat police officers need to be in prison.

 

I disagree. Just because injustice occurred with the Floyd riots is not a reason for injustice to occur on Jan 6.

Address the two-tiered justice system. But not by doing the same thing the Left does.

It is also a two-tiered justice system on the Right. Trump did have classified documents at his residence. So did Biden. An analyst was sentenced to prison for taking home classified documents (she wasn't selling them, but took them home to get ahead of work and left them there). But she was a little person ...like us.

We don't know who instigated the riot. But we do know a few who instigated it in part (and one who claimed credit for doing so).

I have no sympathy for anybody - regardless of political ideology - who attacks a police officer or who vandalized government buildings.

 

Problem is he didn't actually declassify the doc (technically he could have by simply declaring it so....but there would be a record....there isn't....and in reality it is the information not the physical papers, hence the reason there is a record for declassification.....and yes, I've dealt with these types of information and classifications). But yes, he could have when he was President. And Obama could have for Biden.

I'm not getting into this tangent. My point is there is a two tiered justice system in more ways than one. And that is wrong.

But two wrongs won't make it right.

 

The bottom line (and my point here) is that Christians should not commit evil, repeat misinformation, speak lies, seek injustice etc in order to "fight fire with fire".

That is simply not our calling as children of God.

 

I have not repeated misinformation. And I never said that those were the same (they were different, including how the documents were returned).

Stop repeating misinformation that I said they were the same.

Biden did have classified documents. I never claimed it was so that his son could have access to them. That would be an assumption.

Trump also had classified information. This was information that had not been declassified. So did Pence.

I am not saying that they should be tried. Trump was a bit different in that he didn't turn in those documents. But I am not even saying he needed to be charged.

I am saying that an analyst took classified documents home to work on them, repeatedly, and failed to turn them back in. She got 5 years in prison for mishandling classified documents.