More liberty gone - NSA has YOUR records

Unfortunately, there are exceptions to the 'Do Not Call List'...

I think non-profits and political campaingers are exempted...

So, I am not on the list because i don't want to make it easy to verify my number as a "Known good Valid" one.

SMM

 

I really don't see what the big fuss here is all about now. This spying on citizens business was made public years ago, ESHELON, Project Shamrock and Minaret, Canivore, cointelpro etc. From the reaction here you'd think this was all some kind of new news or something.

This is how it works, if the government wants to do something illegal or unethical to us they just do it, then they anounce it later with some spin, (we only wanna protect you from the ____, it's for your own good or whatever) then they have a big theatrical lefty vs righty debate in the media and congress then they make it legal.

 

Think Poindexter and "Total Information Awareness" remember that? It was never shut down like they told us. It was just repackaged, renamed and funded through different channels. That's all this is.

 

Okay, so you don't like the left---you don't like the right. You don't like anything in between (maybe I dunno, tell me). If you could make THREE major changes to the government only to fix the problems, please be specific and make the list and tell us what you would do. THis is not really for debate---just trying to understand what you would LIKE in place.

I'm doing this exercise so that we get away from so much theory discussion and discuss what exactly can be done to make it the government that would provide you with the rights you want and still be fair to the rest of the population.

Are you game to try this little exercise so we can see where it goes? I promise to keep an open mind and not slam your ideas until you get a chance to explain why or answer questions about the changes that I may ask. How about it? I think this might be kinda fun for all of us. (Maybe we need to start a new thread?) Three changes you would make to FIX the government? an idea? Tell me if you think this exercise might shed some real-world light on what we believe and how we can fix the problems we perceive.

 

I agree MP. What the government is doing is illegal. There are people that seem to feel this is not that big of an issue to them. All I have to say is that it's unfortunate that people don't learn from history.

 

SpiritualMadMan:
//Are the issues they are griping about serious enough
in their own minds to get on their knees and seriously pray about them ... //

I've been prayerfully working these issues for 30 years.
Yet all some people want to do is gripe about it.
This current issue seems to boil down to:

The NSA was caught doing it's job.
The Liberal press is on a witch hunt.
The knee-jerk arch-conservatives (more conservative
than D.W.Bush) are up in arms.

Recall that the NSA started under the admnistration
of conservative Democrat Harry Truman.

 

Okay, so you don't like the left---you don't like the right. You don't like anything in between (maybe I dunno, tell me). If you could make THREE major changes to the government only to fix the problems, please be specific and make the list and tell us what you would do. THis is not really for debate---just trying to understand what you would LIKE in place.

I'm doing this exercise so that we get away from so much theory discussion and discuss what exactly can be done to make it the government that would provide you with the rights you want and still be fair to the rest of the population.

Are you game to try this little exercise so we can see where it goes? I promise to keep an open mind and not slam your ideas until you get a chance to explain why or answer questions about the changes that I may ask. How about it? I think this might be kinda fun for all of us. (Maybe we need to start a new thread?) Three changes you would make to FIX the government? an idea? Tell me if you think this exercise might shed some real-world light on what we believe and how we can fix the problems we perceive. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe there should be a thread devoted just for conspiracy theories, one for ranting about nothing really, and another for posting prayers for the unhappy Christians who use those threads?

Ive found that most just want to complain, and never have the responsibility of fixing that which they moan and groan about. I want to know why that is.

Did anyone stop to think that if they actually got out there and did something (posting on the internet doesnt count), that perhaps they would actually get more accomplished than those who sit back on their hands and claim to be injured?

I guess it is too easy to just sit there.

As long as you think the way youve always thought, you will always be what you always were.

 

Okay, so you don't like the left---you don't like the right. You don't like anything in between (maybe I dunno, tell me). If you could make THREE major changes to the government only to fix the problems, please be specific and make the list and tell us what you would do. THis is not really for debate---just trying to understand what you would LIKE in place.

I'm doing this exercise so that we get away from so much theory discussion and discuss what exactly can be done to make it the government that would provide you with the rights you want and still be fair to the rest of the population.

Are you game to try this little exercise so we can see where it goes? I promise to keep an open mind and not slam your ideas until you get a chance to explain why or answer questions about the changes that I may ask. How about it? I think this might be kinda fun for all of us. (Maybe we need to start a new thread?) Three changes you would make to FIX the government? an idea? Tell me if you think this exercise might shed some real-world light on what we believe and how we can fix the problems we perceive. </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting idea Phillip. Only three huh? You misunderstand me at the most basic level Phillip. It isn't that I don't trust the left or right...it's that I believe the whole left vs. right paradigm is in itself a tool of control. As long as you are stuck in it you'll go along with one faction or another even if both factions collude with the foreign powers mentioned later. America isn't about factions it's about protecting the U.S. Constitution and holding those who seek to abuse dismantle or sidestep it accountable.

1. Uphold your first duty to the country and defend the U.S. Constitution. Not the government, not the president, not the congress, not the republicans, not the democrats, nor even "third parties" to name a few.

2. Get rid of the federal reserve. It's unconstitutional. And is a racket going back to the European goldsmiths that first used fractional reserve banking practices. And it's unconstitutional.

3. Get out of the United Nations. They seek only to usurp our national sovereingty and are a foreign power acting against the U.S. Contitution.

And,...

4. Send the CFR and Trilaterals packing. They are all about building a world government and doing everything they can to keep you from doing number one.

5. Take back the media from monopolized corporate control.

 

Okay, so you don't like the left---you don't like the right. You don't like anything in between (maybe I dunno, tell me). If you could make THREE major changes to the government only to fix the problems, please be specific and make the list and tell us what you would do. THis is not really for debate---just trying to understand what you would LIKE in place.

I'm doing this exercise so that we get away from so much theory discussion and discuss what exactly can be done to make it the government that would provide you with the rights you want and still be fair to the rest of the population.

Are you game to try this little exercise so we can see where it goes? I promise to keep an open mind and not slam your ideas until you get a chance to explain why or answer questions about the changes that I may ask. How about it? I think this might be kinda fun for all of us. (Maybe we need to start a new thread?) Three changes you would make to FIX the government? an idea? Tell me if you think this exercise might shed some real-world light on what we believe and how we can fix the problems we perceive. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe there should be a thread devoted just for conspiracy theories, one for ranting about nothing really, and another for posting prayers for the unhappy Christians who use those threads?

Ive found that most just want to complain, and never have the responsibility of fixing that which they moan and groan about. I want to know why that is.

Did anyone stop to think that if they actually got out there and did something (posting on the internet doesnt count), that perhaps they would actually get more accomplished than those who sit back on their hands and claim to be injured?

I guess it is too easy to just sit there.

As long as you think the way youve always thought, you will always be what you always were. </font>[/QUOTE]Did you ever stop to wonder if maybe I have done more than just post on an internet forum? I imagine it's more soothing to your mind while your out there defending the United Nations charter to think that those actually defending the United States Constitution are looney tunes or traitors. But that's okay you can't help yourself. I understand that.

 

I guess if Al Qaeda wants to cause people some problems on a widespread basis all they have to do is to randomly call Americans. Then the government will waste its time going after innocent citizens and making their lives miserable.

 

Poncho,

I agree with your ideas number 1 and number 2. I disagree with your ideas number 3, number 4, and number 5.

 

I agree MP. What the government is doing is illegal. There are people that seem to feel this is not that big of an issue to them. All I have to say is that it's unfortunate that people don't learn from history. </font>[/QUOTE]The sky is always falling somewhere and to some people.

This is an entirely legal activity, just like the "warrantless eavesdropping" bruhaha.

 

This is an unconstitutional activity and if engaging in it eventually brings down the Bush administration through impeachment by the Left Wing of the Demopublican Party winning control of the Congress this November, then so be it.

 

Poncho: //4. Send the CFR and Trilaterals packing. They are all about
building a world government ... //

Does your list of scape goats include the
REPORT FROM IRON MOUNTAIN? (Dial Press ,1967)

 

Check with 100 electrical engineers. All
but one will find your idea green cheese.
The 100th one is incompenent. Random calls
would only create noise in the system.

 

You are wrong.

This particular issue will "bring down" nothing at all.

 

No, you are wrong.

 

No, you are wrong. </font>[/QUOTE]Prove it.

 

You prove it is constitutional.

Before a law is passed or an action is taken by the federal government it should be proven that it is constitutional.