More liberty gone - NSA has YOUR records

[Phillip]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Philip,

has the news of those 11 been released yet, Bro? We don't want ya to get into any trouble releasing info to the public too early.

No secret, it was on the Army News Network. Let me see if I can find you the link. It is unclassified.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

cool

As kids, we used to make I guess what was the equivalent of potato guns using coffee cans and a little gasoline.

We used to shoot rotten vegetables over our house and hit the street. lol

I also learned to make a homemade gun using nothing more than a bicycle spoke. I could shoot holes through a cardboard box with that one.

 

[Phillip]

I can't find the story. It was on our news network last week (at least I think that's where I got it.) Anyway, here is the Army News Site. You might find it very interesting because it doesn't have the typical media slant on it. It is for soldiers and civilians in the Army, but open to the public.

Here is a story on a leader captured a while back:

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=8834

You may keep checking it and search it. Supposedly they were either killed or captured in Iraq. Fairly high ranking in one of Osama's

Anyway, if your not used to this site, it has good Army news withoutexternal bias.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

no prob on the story, bro. just wanted to make sure ya aint stepping out ahead of general headquarters.

 

[poncho]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Ken if you don't trust your government have you ever thought about moving to a country where you could trust them? Say, Syria, China, Russia, France?

Just curious.

Why does Ken have to move to a different country for holding the very same beliefs that the founding fathers of this country held Phillip? None of them ever said this or any other government was trustworty, Jefferson went out of his way to proclaim his mistrust of them, and that's one of the main reasons we have a written constitution in the first place!

Third, if you claim to have manuals for the NSA then they are either put out for propaganda or they are fake. The real deal would be classified and if you did publish them you would most likely be in jail by now.

If this was directed at me Phillip, let me be clear...I never said anything about NSA manuals. I was refering to the FBI and Virginia police training manuals that accuse almost all citizens of being terror suspects for one "reason" or another. Make no mistake we are the biggest threat to those in our government that would make themselves rulers over us. Our whole system was set up like it was because the founders didn't trust government either.

Maybe you should be the one looking for a safer place to live and let those of us that still put liberty above safety have this country back.

George Washington said this about parties not meaning it as a prediction at the time I'm fairly sure. But it might as well have been, we've been seeing it come true right in front of us for decades.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

The common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.

The Farewell Address (September 17, 1796)

From I've been reading here and other places it looks to me that one faction would willingly live under a tyrants rule as long as he's "one of their own".

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

The question isn't whether one should leave the Country or not...

The question is this...

Are the issues they are griping about serious enough in their own minds to get on their knees and seriously pray about them...

God has promised to heal our land, *if*

2 Chroinicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Are we not called by His Name?

Are we not, parenthetically at least, the Israel of God?

Is God not bigger and more powerful than any political party? (Or, all of them put together?)

Then this applies to all the land including righteous and moral leadership...

But, if it ain't worth praying about then why are we griping....

SMM

 

[saturneptune]

First of all, we should be praying without ceasing, so that is a mute point. Second, Ken and Poncho have every justification in the world for not trusting the government, and the Constitution gives them certain rights to try and change that. Phillip, if you cannot see the writing on the wall about this administration (and recent democratic ones), and all you can do is advise someone "if you dont like it or trust it move to another country" I have got to wonder how you are able to stop at red lights and go at green lights in traffic.

 

[poncho]

Originally posted by Phillip:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James_Newman:
Oh, I have no doubt that anyone can eavsdrop on my phone calls if they really want to. The disturbing thing is that the government wants to, and they want me to say, 'well as long as it will keep me safe from brown people...'

If they really are serious about the 'war on terror' why don't they stop the illegal aliens that are pouring across the border?

Well, the sad part is that this doesn't work. The alien problem is ANOTHER BIG problem, but very unlikely to be related to terrorism.

The Mexicans want work and the American Companies want cheap labor. American's also want drugs.

There has been no proven connections between fanatic muslim terrorists and illegal Mexican entry.

Could it happen? Possibly--just not likely.

The MAJOR terrorist prevention has been killing them where they live and keeping them running through the mountains. Most military activity is classified, but actually THAT is wha.t is stopping 9/11 and quite a bit of that is extremely high-tech operations and it IS working.

Just last week eleven terrorist leaders were taken down. THAT IS ELEVEN BIG BOSSES who plan and find funding to crash into buildings in big airplanes or other devious plans they can think of.

The list of proven successes by our special forces has been GREAT.'

This is what happens when you let the military run a plan instead of the politicians. </font>[/QUOTE]You do realize don't you that this administration has been caught several times faking news already and the Pentagon has come out and said in so many words that they are going to use propaganda on us.

Now we're even being conditioned to believe that the internet is bad and needs to be under monopolized corporate and military control because "terrorists" use it. You are being fed a steady diet of corporate governmental fertilizer Phillip. Sooner or later even you will begin to recognize what that curious smell is.

 

[JFox1]

I think we all should be VERY concerned that NSA has a database on our phone calls. Do you really want other people to know your business plans? Your political contributions and affiliations? Your religious, personal, or labor union relationships? Your monetary transactions and family business? Any one of these can cause serious problems if this information falls into the wrong hands.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Originally posted by JFox1:
I think we all should be VERY concerned that NSA has a database on our phone calls. Do you really want other people to know your business plans? Your political contributions and affiliations? Your religious, personal, or labor union relationships? Your monetary transactions and family business? Any one of these can cause serious problems if this information falls into the wrong hands.

In as much as only the telephone numbers and dates and times are currently part of the database, on the domestic side...

I am not sure how much of your political contributions, or business plans, etc. could be revealed...

Of course if you call a cult or hate group regularly that might raise a red flag and garner a wire tap request to actually record the conversation...

And, how many actual leaks have been traced to the NSA?

Compared to, say the CIA and FBI?

SMM

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Oops... Double-Post

 

[Magnetic Poles]

This whole thing is analogous to the NSA looking at all your mail to see who you send and receive mail from. They may not be checking content, but it is still snooping.

Once the information is in their hands, it can be used for more nefarious purposes, such as IRS investigations, and even used against political enemies. Don't you think that Nixon's CREEP (Committee to RE-Elect the President) would have used data like that? Heck, they broke into DNC offices, why not just monitor their calling patterns.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by poncho:
Strange thing about all this is that while they are calling this a "terrorist surveillance program" instead of the warrantless domestic spying program it is their own federal and even some state training manuals are calling us the terrorists. I think most folks have either not seen these manuals, overlooked them or just refuse to put two and two together.

Our own government considers us to be more of a threat than illegal aliens or others. Look at the wide open borders and the fact that our government colludes with Mexico to rat out law abiding citizens like the Minutemen doing what the government flat out refuses to do. If this isn't the case then I'd like to know why they refer to property rights activists and people that mention the U.S. Constitution as being possible terror suspects, now they're even saying that if you wear Levi's travel in mixed groups with women and children have a good attitude and act nice towrds the police you are a terror suspect.

I've already posted the manuals here on BB more than once and get little or no reaction. But, I'm a nutcase because I actually read their documents and tell people here what they're saying.

I don't know about manuals and whatnot, but I am very, very frightened.

Horrified, even.

I actually agree -- agree -- with both MP and (gasp) Poncho!

I need to go lie down. This can't be good...

 

[jet11]

Originally posted by Magnetic Poles:
Jet, all my reasons for opposing this stand, despite your approval of the program. And they are keying on EVERY call. The database is to be every telephone call. From number, to number, time, duration, the whole enchilada. No one says they are listening to every call...but this is still a Big Brother intrusion. It is not the government's business who I call or receive calls from. It is as if all of us are being suspected of something.

This is unAmerican and wrong. The use of fear will cause people to permit anything apparently. I hope Congress jumps all over this, and apparently it may be happening.

I never said I agree with the program, because I do not. I only stated that KenH was being outrageous in his claims that all US Citizens were suspects.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the plan and hope it is ended quickly, as well as the databases destroyed. I see too much potential for abuse regardless of who is in charge of the government.

 

[carpro]

Amazing!

Why the fuss NOW over something that's been common knowledge since last December?

Why not then?

 

[jet11]

Originally posted by carpro:
Amazing!

Why the fuss NOW over something that's been common knowledge since last December?

Why not then?

It was not common knowledge to me that they were gathering all telephone call information (domestic and international). Do you not see the potential for abuse?

I was under the impression that they were gathering only international phone calls (made and received to known terrorist numbers).

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
I actually agree -- agree -- with both MP and (gasp) Poncho!

I need to go lie down. This can't be good...

TP, this is a sure sign of the Apocolypse!

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by jet11:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
Amazing!

Why the fuss NOW over something that's been common knowledge since last December?

Why not then?

It was not common knowledge to me that they were gathering all telephone call information (domestic and international). Do you not see the potential for abuse?

I was under the impression that they were gathering only international phone calls (made and received to known terrorist numbers). </font>[/QUOTE]What I don't see is the revival of an issue that has already been acknowledged and dealt with.

Why now?

Bush haters must have been having a hard time finding new issues to pelt the public with, so now they revive an old one.

Reminds me of the non issue Downing Street Memos. Just stirring the pot.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Carpro, the international surveillance was revealed back then...to my knowledge (and I could be wrong), the revelation of AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth providing call detail records on all of their customers' domestic traffic to the NSA was uncovered this week by USA Today, which apparently has better intelligence than the administration!

 

[carpro]

I'm sorry your are so willingly being misled.