First, define music.
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Music (oh man its about to go down)
- Thread starter Gorship
- Start date
I would say it's not the emotion of anger itself that is sinful...anger at child abuse is valid and godly.
Since Rock music is so dangerous, could you define it please, so we all know how to avoid it?
define please...
Do you like the hymn "Be Still my soul?" That music was written by Jean Sebellius as part of a secular symphony. Lots of non-Christians like it. Lots of non-christians like to hear Amazing grace at funerals. Lots of hymns are sung to what used to be secular folk tunes.
What you are asking for is impossible...music that Christians like and non-christians don't does not exist. And where does classical music fit into your system?
convicted1
Guest
To be honest I really don't listen to it a lot. One genre I do not care for is Southern Gospel music, but that is just me, and I don't care for country either.
We have a couple of Hillsong cd's and I like a lot of their songs. I also like this David Crowder kid. I thought about getting some of his music.
As far as what type of secular music I like, well, my two favorite bands of all time are Led Zeppelin and Metallica.
When I candidated for a church I pastored, they asked me what my favorite music was (the deacons in a private meeting) and they laughed and moved onto other questions when I said Led Zeppelin. They thought I was joking. :laugh:
I can see the link between you and Led Zeppelin and Metallica. I actually used to like Metallica myself. Then there was AC/DC, Tupac, about anything from DeathRow records, Puff Daddy and Biggie Small, etc. Plus I still like the group America(Horse with no name and Sister golden hair are really good, plus Ventura Highway). So I am a mixed bag of "likes" in regards to music.
I have a feeling that when you pastored that church, you had entrance music much like the wrestlers do. When you stepped in, the music to Metallica's "Enter Sandman" started blarring..........running for cover now.......:smilewinkgrin::wavey:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Honestly I used their music as motivation to lift. I don't listen to them much other than that. :thumbs:
Aaron said:
Here's the best 2 defintions I've found:
1. a. The art of organizing tones in a coherent sequence so as to produce a unified and continuous composition. (The American Heritage Dictionary)
2. Music is the organization of sound and time. (Elliott Schwartz- composer)
I believe these are both good, and perhaps #2 is the only one that works across the board, as it allows for improvised music that does not repeat itself at all.
Either definition certainly applies to rap, as most would agree that a drummer keeping cadence in a marching band is a simple form of music...and that African drum ensembles are producing music (with out melody or harmony, which I don't believe is essential to music)...SO...adding a person speaking over top of that drum sound does not automatically make it cease being music.
That's my opinion...as a classically trained musician.
convicted1 said:
America's Hat Trick is still one of my favorite albums.
Well said...:thumbs:
Those are good clinical definitions, and useful.Here's the best 2 defintions I've found:
1. a. The art of organizing tones in a coherent sequence so as to produce a unified and continuous composition. (The American Heritage Dictionary)
2. Music is the organization of sound and time. (Elliott Schwartz- composer)
I believe these are both good, and perhaps #2 is the only one that works across the board, as it allows for improvised music that does not repeat itself at all.
Either definition certainly applies to rap, as most would agree that a drummer keeping cadence in a marching band is a simple form of music...and that African drum ensembles are producing music (with out melody or harmony, which I don't believe is essential to music)...SO...adding a person speaking over top of that drum sound does not automatically make it cease being music.
That's my opinion...as a classically trained musician.
The definition at which I've arrived purposefully avoids any technical aspects, because nonmusicologists know by nature when something is music and when it's not, and no one needs to be a musician or musicologist to evaluate the morality of a piece of music.
Music is the nonverbal communication of mood, emotion, demeanor, decorum, etc. through the pleasing and logical arrangement of certain sounds. Being a form of communication/art, music is thought.
Music is nonverbal. It communicates without words.
Pleasing and logical arrangement of certain sounds. This means that not just any arrangement of sounds sound can be called music. They are certain sounds possessing certain tone qualities and existing in certain relationships with each other, and progressing in a certain manner.
Music is thought. It's called "Muse"ic for a reason.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Bro. 12...I know you are a music guy and I must admit that I already know that from a strictly Biblical (chapter and verse) standpoint I cannot disprove or prove anything either you...or I have said on this subject. I will be honest and tell you that I can only follow how I "believe and feel" the Lord leading me about this. I am convinced out of the witness within my own heart of how I feel about the music I listen too. I have learned to trust that inner voice on this subject but I also know that will not convince anyone else. I am a music lover and music has always played a HUGE part in my earthly existense both before and after my salvation. There are some things that just "ring truth" to me and others that do not. There are types of music that appeal to what I KNOW is the old man or fleshly nature in me and types of music that do not...conversely there are types of music (both instrumentally and vocally) that make my new man soar and rejoice in the Lord. I do NOT believe that MY standard is THE standard....but it is the only one, between my Lord and I, that I am at peace about or comfortable with. It is at this point that I should probably disengage from the discussion. I can only tell you this...from one brother in Christ to another....I think it is safe to say that if you and I were ever in each others company, that anything I play musically would NOT be offensive to you in any way...particularly from a spiritual standpoint. What I play or listen too may be rejected (or accepted) by some on the basis of "preference"....in regards to style or type....but never on content or because it was "offensive". That is the ground I occupy musically speaking. God Bless You.
By the way...I do have a few Andrew Peterson CD's (I know you like him)that I picked up at a local thrift store (Resurrection Letters Vol.2, and Love and Thunder)... not my personal preference but they were OK. Actually...my personal preferences are ANY traditional hymn music and Gospel Bluegrass.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Alive in Christ
New Member
Why?
Should our CARS be seperate and different than that of those who are of this world?
How about our HOUSES? Should our houses be seperate and different from those who are of this world?
How about our refridgerators? Our tool boxes? Our lawn mowers? our garages? our fences? our pens and pencils, etc etc etc etc etc..........
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How about your behavior? Mood? Demeanor? etc etc etc etc etc.........
Thanks for pointing out that we are not called to be separate and different from the world in every way we could possibly imagine, but only in those areas commanded by scripture...Musical style is not one of those.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Really?
The Bible DOES discuss and make reference to music....It does not discuss the other things you try to apply a comparison too. "Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" are a legitimate part of any discussion about worship and admonition among the brethren (Col.3:15,16) It is NOT a material object. (even though many in our day seem to make the pursuit of those things an act of worship!)
Bro.Greg
The Bible DOES discuss and make reference to music....It does not discuss the other things you try to apply a comparison too. "Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" are a legitimate part of any discussion about worship and admonition among the brethren (Col.3:15,16) It is NOT a material object. (even though many in our day seem to make the pursuit of those things an act of worship!)
Bro.Greg
Alive in Christ
New Member
And what does the bible say about music?
Things like this...
And those admonititions can aply to ANY form of music.
Praise the lord!
Things like this...
And those admonititions can aply to ANY form of music.
Praise the lord!
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I know of cowboy churches that make it a point to stick to the Sons of the Pioneers type western music in order not to tempt their recently saved folks back into the honky tonky scene with honky tonk sounding country and western Christian music.
I also know of folks ministering to folks that have been saved out of Nigerian folk religion (a form of paganism) and because of the roots of some forms of rock and hip hop won't do the music so as not to confuse those Nigerians.
Ditto can be said about any culture's music: for many it is no problem, but for some it is a problem.
Personally, if the tune or musical genre is GENERALLY used to promote illicit sex, worship of idols, rebellion, anger, or any sort of thing Christians should avoid, I avoid the music also. And I would walk out of any church that was so cold spiritually it would risk people's faith that way.
Now, that doesn't mean I won't listen to those forms of music or worship with them if they are in a cultural setting washed of those meanings.
But my personal opinion, and it is only that, is that some forms of Christian music have become idols to some people. If someone gets hot under the collar rather than listen to why another person rejects a given song or music type, I think they are serving that music rather than God. My personal opinion, and it is only that, is that they have become addicted to the endorphins "their" music provides, whatever music it is. When that happens, I think maybe they need a few months of what some high church folks call "Word and Table" services.......services without music.
I also know of folks ministering to folks that have been saved out of Nigerian folk religion (a form of paganism) and because of the roots of some forms of rock and hip hop won't do the music so as not to confuse those Nigerians.
Ditto can be said about any culture's music: for many it is no problem, but for some it is a problem.
Personally, if the tune or musical genre is GENERALLY used to promote illicit sex, worship of idols, rebellion, anger, or any sort of thing Christians should avoid, I avoid the music also. And I would walk out of any church that was so cold spiritually it would risk people's faith that way.
Now, that doesn't mean I won't listen to those forms of music or worship with them if they are in a cultural setting washed of those meanings.
But my personal opinion, and it is only that, is that some forms of Christian music have become idols to some people. If someone gets hot under the collar rather than listen to why another person rejects a given song or music type, I think they are serving that music rather than God. My personal opinion, and it is only that, is that they have become addicted to the endorphins "their" music provides, whatever music it is. When that happens, I think maybe they need a few months of what some high church folks call "Word and Table" services.......services without music.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Nodak posted...
I agree with that statement
I agree with that statement
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Maybe, its just cause Ive spent too much time around IFB people (This was a joke, its ok if you giggled... ) but, I do thing that seperation is a good thing
HOLD THE TOMATOES!
I personally think that we should be spending a lot of time among fellow believers and sharpening iron and being ready, and going out into the world when appropriate and saving the lost from the hellfire they are walking head first into.
as for music (to bring this all back around), and even our homes and lawn mowers and pencils etc. (donno if my fridge is godly though.. pray for my fridge)
All things should be to edify God. if thats in music in a certain style then so be it
our homes (family relations) will be Godly, thats what makes them different.
The way we conduct ourselves when we run over a squirrel with our lawn mower, that will be our 'living' testimony.
so unless we can file something under a sinful nature ie Drugs, drukenness, etc. If you can genuinely serve God through a medium then I say go for it. As long as you have prayed about it and perhaps even spoken with your pastor. "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." (1 cor 10:23)
continue on the discussion. Enjoying the read.
HOLD THE TOMATOES!
I personally think that we should be spending a lot of time among fellow believers and sharpening iron and being ready, and going out into the world when appropriate and saving the lost from the hellfire they are walking head first into.
as for music (to bring this all back around), and even our homes and lawn mowers and pencils etc. (donno if my fridge is godly though.. pray for my fridge)
All things should be to edify God. if thats in music in a certain style then so be it
our homes (family relations) will be Godly, thats what makes them different.
The way we conduct ourselves when we run over a squirrel with our lawn mower, that will be our 'living' testimony.
so unless we can file something under a sinful nature ie Drugs, drukenness, etc. If you can genuinely serve God through a medium then I say go for it. As long as you have prayed about it and perhaps even spoken with your pastor. "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." (1 cor 10:23)
continue on the discussion. Enjoying the read.
Music is behavior. It is human interaction. So, I'm afraid it is one of those.
But even if not, Paul does specify hymns. Even in his day it was a style distinctive from say, paeans and dithyrambs.
1. Putting on socks is behaior, so is eating. Do all to the Glory of God. The specific manner of putting socks is not specified in scripture, nor which foods one cannot eat...in fact there is about 2 whole chapters specifically showing how it is ok to eat the exact same food as the pagan world.
2. Paul specifies psalms, hymns, & spiritual songs...We don't know for sure what the last one is...but I can pretty much guarantee that Pauls' HYMNS were not the same as todays (i mean 3 centuries ago's) hymns.
But not interact like them.
You keep talking about music like it is an object, like an acorn or an apple. But it isn't. It is a manner of communication. Specifically it is the communication of mood, emotion, demeanor—good grief, didn't read the definition above?
It is human interaction.
Quit talking about music like it's some inanimate object that you can pluck from a tree or find washed up on the shore somewhere.
Actually, hymns were marked by their solemnity, and were used in praise of the highest deities. Dithyrambs, at the other end of the scale, were marked by their wild exurberance.