Music (oh man its about to go down)

[12strings]

But not interact like them.

You keep talking about music like it is an object, like an acorn or an apple. But it isn't. It is a manner of communication. Specifically it is the communication of mood, emotion, demeanor—good grief, didn't read the definition above?

It is human interaction.

Quit talking about music like it's some inanimate object that you can pluck from a tree or find washed up on the shore somewhere.

Actually, hymns were marked by their solemnity, and were used in praise of the highest deities. Dithyrambs, at the other end of the scale, were marked by their wild exurberance.

1. Music is OFTEN human interaction, Sometimes it's a guy playing piano in a room by himself. But for the sake of keeping this about congregational worship music, yes, it is human interaction, which is why I posted what I did about the problems with Christians taking heavy metal and copying the anger and seeming hatred in thier performance of it...but it is neither the instruments, or the volume, or the pattern of beat that is the problem. loud drums and guitars do not make one angry, or control someone and cause them to sin. Loud music is encouraged by the psalms.

2. Again, Exuberance is not forbidden. Each emotion has it's proper place and time...Exuberance was encouraged in the psalms. The simple fact is that loud, joyful music is not forbidden in scriptures. Neither is ANY particular instrument, or volume level.

 

[InTheLight]

...but it is neither the instruments, or the volume, or the pattern of beat that is the problem. loud drums and guitars do not make one angry, or control someone and cause them to sin. Loud music is encouraged by the psalms.

2. Again, Exuberance is not forbidden. Each emotion has it's proper place and time...Exuberance was encouraged in the psalms. The simple fact is that loud, joyful music is not forbidden in scriptures. Neither is ANY particular instrument, or volume level.

Absolutely agree. And here is the verse:

Psalms 33:3 KJV
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

Notice, "sing a NEW song" with "a LOUD noise". That doesn't sound like 150 year old hymns with only a piano accompaniment.

 

[saturneptune]

To be honest I really don't listen to it a lot. One genre I do not care for is Southern Gospel music, but that is just me, and I don't care for country either.

Those two styles are pathetic, and attract the simple minded who cannot reason beyond the third grade level.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Tis was posted...

Originally Posted by preacher4truth
To be honest I really don't listen to it a lot. One genre I do not care for is Southern Gospel music, but that is just me, and I don't care for country either.

Well. A new low.

That may be the most stupid..ignorant..brainless post EVER on ths site.

I didnt know grade school age kids would be interested in an adult site like this, but this this one does.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

It's NOT About Us....

You know...after reading through and participating in many of these threads about music, good or bad, I was struck with the thought that most of these discussions turn into some degree of a dogfight over not only what is GOOD or BAD music, but more often than not, what WE personally like or what WE personally don't like musically.

The question that came to my mind is....shouldn't the discussion more properly be....what GOD personally likes....or conversely...what GOD personally doesn't like. We need to be evaluating things based on what God likes or dislikes....not on our own subjective opinions. I also know I need to follow my OWN advise here as well.

I'm just saying that the argument OUGHT to be more about what pleases,honors and glorifies HIM than about what pleases US. We, as Born-Again Bible Believers ought to ALWAYS give HIM the benefit of any doubt. We have nothing OF ANY REAL VALUE to lose and everything to gain by doing that.

I can't help but believe that if THAT were our criteria or basis for discussion then there would be a lot of things that would turn out differently on a whole range of topics..not only about music..but other things as well...Amen?

Think about it ya'll....! We desperately need true Revival in our churches...and yes...in this "faith community" that we know as the Baptist Board as well.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[preacher4truth]

Tis was posted...




Well. A new low.

That may be the most stupid..ignorant..brainless post EVER on ths site.

I didnt know grade school age kids would be interested in an adult site like this, but this this one does.

Originally Posted by preacher4truth
To be honest I really don't listen to it a lot. One genre I do not care for is Southern Gospel music, but that is just me, and I don't care for country either.

Those two styles are pathetic, and attract the simple minded who cannot reason beyond the third grade level.

That is not my quote. The first portion? Yes. The latter? Nope.

 

[Oldtimer]

You know...after reading through and participating in many of these threads about music, good or bad, I was struck with the thought that most of these discussions turn into some degree of a dogfight over not only what is GOOD or BAD music, but more often than not, what WE personally like or what WE personally don't like musically.

The question that came to my mind is....shouldn't the discussion more properly be....what GOD personally likes....or conversely...what GOD personally doesn't like. We need to be evaluating things based on what God likes or dislikes....not on our own subjective opinions. I also know I need to follow my OWN advise here as well.

I'm just saying that the argument OUGHT to be more about what pleases,honors and glorifies HIM than about what pleases US. We, as Born-Again Bible Believers ought to ALWAYS give HIM the benefit of any doubt. We have nothing OF ANY REAL VALUE to lose and everything to gain by doing that.

I can't help but believe that if THAT were our criteria or basis for discussion then there would be a lot of things that would turn out differently on a whole range of topics..not only about music..but other things as well...Amen?

Think about it ya'll....! We desperately need true Revival in our churches...and yes...in this "faith community" that we know as the Baptist Board as well.

Bro.Greg:saint:

You have an AMEN here, FWIW. :thumbsup:

 

[Alive in Christ]

That is not my quote. The first portion? Yes. The latter? Nope.

Well...whoever is responsible...shame on them

 

[Dr. Bob]

To lie about someone's post (attributing words to them they never said) and then getting on a soapbox against this so-called "quotation", is below the action of the child of God.

Let me encourage everyone to speak the truth in love. If you disagree with a quotation, be certain to use the "quote" feature to give their exact words and not what you "think" they meant.

BTW, I truly do not care what most opinions of "like" or "dislike" xyz style of music. We all have opinions and musical taste varies. Opinions are like armpits. We all have them but I'd rather not scrutinize and criticize anyone else.

Too busy putting deodorant on my own so it will be "less offensive" than yours.

 

[Alive in Christ]

This is the post that caused my extreme rebuke....

Those two styles are pathetic, and attract the simple minded who cannot reason beyond the third grade level.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is the post that caused my extreme rebuke....

Those two styles are pathetic, and attract the simple minded who cannot reason beyond the third grade level.

This was not my quote which you in fact attributed to me.

Show a link where this was from me. Thanks.

Looks like AIC continues after an admin response to attribute added words as if from me which are in fact false.

 

[Alive in Christ]

I am just making sure that ONLY the ((infantile post))) is identified as the one that caused my rebuke.and not the other.

If the quote isnt yours you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Iconoclast]

This was not my quote which you in fact attributed to me.

Show a link where this was from me. Thanks.

Looks like AIC continues after an admin response to attribute added words as if from me which are in fact false.

Something I learned a long time ago...never trust a man who plays the banjo:laugh: Get control of yourself AIC.....what is next? are you going to post under a disguised name????:laugh:

 

[Sminasian]

This is a sore topic for me. " Christian" radio plays so much contemporary Christian music it isn't funny. There are actually songs that are secular and the words have been changed around a little and the words " God" and Jesus are added to make think it is " Christian" . It is NOT

I also know from being in a contemporary Baptist church ( the music ) that the music sets a tone for the way people dress, their demeanor, and their attitude. Music is very " molding" and can determine how a person behaves and responds to life, and in this case, the Lord. To keep things pure, holy and God honoring, I really prefer old hymns.

 

[saturneptune]

This is the post that caused my extreme rebuke....

The quote was made by me and done in jest, as is obvious. Please do not attribute that to someone else.

 

[preacher4truth]

Do you know (or anyone for that matter) why people like the gentleman from Jesus-is-savior, or these Big Baptist churches hate the CCM so much? my pastor even has touches of it, we make jokes about it from time to time. Don't know the root of it.

Well, most of the argument from the jesus-is-savior types is that it's of the devil. It's kind of like a liberal being presented with facts, so they pull out the 'racist' card. A preacher friend of mine turned against me because he heard me listening to some CCM (some new song by FFH back in the day). He says 'Same beat as the devils music.' I told him his Southern Gospel had the same beat as a tonk. He didn't like that too much.

So they are against CCM, 'canned' music (some of them) and having a screen up during a service. All are 'of the devil'.

Anyhow, I stopped listening to what some of these fundies think about these issues.

 

[Aaron]

1. Music is OFTEN human interaction, Sometimes it's a guy playing piano in a room by himself.

Music requires a hearer. Whether it be with himself or someone else, the performer is interacting. Music is a mode of human interaction. It does not exist in any other context.

2. Again, Exuberance is not forbidden. Each emotion has it's proper place and time...Exuberance was encouraged in the psalms. The simple fact is that loud, joyful music is not forbidden in scriptures. Neither is ANY particular instrument, or volume level.

Let's just say your take on the Psalms, though common, is erroneous, but that's a whole 'nuther matter. Focusing, as you want to do, on the NT, I think you will find that the Scriptures place limits on everything. As the imbibers in the wine threads are apt to point out, "moderation in all things" is a Christian virtue. Excess in anything (except in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) is condemned as sensual. When Paul says be not drunk with wine, dithyrambs are in view as well as food and drink. They are praises to Dionysus, led by one "struck by the thunderbolt of wine" and marked by their unrestrained and wild abandon.

In contrast to that, our interaction is in the character of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.

 

[PeterM]

This is a sore topic for me. " Christian" radio plays so much contemporary Christian music it isn't funny. There are actually songs that are secular and the words have been changed around a little and the words " God" and Jesus are added to make think it is " Christian" . It is NOT

I also know from being in a contemporary Baptist church ( the music ) that the music sets a tone for the way people dress, their demeanor, and their attitude. Music is very " molding" and can determine how a person behaves and responds to life, and in this case, the Lord. To keep things pure, holy and God honoring, I really prefer old hymns.

Hi Sminasian! Sorry the subject is a sore one... it shouldn't be and I hope you find some healing.

First off, "Christian" radio stations play what people want to hear. It's market driven like any other industry, even if it's "listener supported". You don't hear stations programming older hymns and SG because the market demographic for music like that is extremely limited. For folks who prefer that style have an abundance of CDs and downloadable MP3s to keep them happy until Jesus comes. I'm not making a value judgement in this, that just the bottom line.

Back in the early 90s, I co-hosted a weekly radio program showcasing CCM. We had a larger listener base than the rest of the "talk" driven programming all week long. We all have our preferences and those preferences don't make us more or less holy in the eyes of God. At the church I pastor, we lean very strongly to what people are listening to in their cars or at home. The Passion conferences have turned out some incredible musicians/song writers. We are very intentional about making sure the lyrics are either direct pulls from the Scriptures or are theologically accurate. If a particular song doesn't meet the standards we have set, we won't include it in a worship gathering... period.

To link music with outward behavior can be a sketchy road. By your definition, we are a "contemporary" church... at least in the music we employ. We are definitely "dressed down" in our worship gatherings as the people we are reaching are either unchurched or dechurched and want little or nothing to do with traditional "church". The preaching/teaching ministries as well as our outreach ministry and participation in missions (local and international) reflect a rigid doctrinal orthodoxy with an emphasis on seeing the Great Commission and Great Commandments lived out. We have even had the unfortunate responsibility of seeing the church discipline a member for some drastic sin they were unrepentant of and refused to cease. My point being that "contemporary" music doesn't necessarily imply a cavalier attitude toward holiness. Every individual and church must follow the leadership of God's Spirit and allow others the freedom to do the same, recognizing that the diversity in our preferences reflects the unknowable depths of God's character.

By the way, a large number of the hymns you like and sing were songs sung in bars and pubs over a pint of ale. The people were familiar with the tunes and new lyrics were written to glorify God.

 

[12strings]

Let's just say your take on the Psalms, though common, is erroneous, but that's a whole 'nuther matter.

"My take" on the psalms is simply that they say to use "Loud cymbals". So not really my take as much as the words used by nearly every English translation. But if you would rather just say it's wrong, that's fine.

Focusing, as you want to do, on the NT, I think you will find that the Scriptures place limits on everything. As the imbibers in the wine threads are apt to point out, "moderation in all things" is a Christian virtue. Excess in anything (except in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) is condemned as sensual.

That's simply not true. There are many things the scripture does not speak to at all, other things that the scriptures do not place specific limits on. (love, truth, faith, hope...). It IS true that any good thing can be distorted, and excess is often a distortion, in alcohol, for example. So perhaps we can say we should not have too much music to the neglect of the reading and preaching of the word.

When Paul says be not drunk with wine, dithyrambs are in view as well as food and drink.

You keep using that word...I couldn't find it anywhere in scripture. I always though that when Paul said be not drunk with wine...he meant to not be drunk with wine.


How about this, can you, or anybody else, tell me, when I am sitting in my office playing guitar, perhaps playing "All creatures of our God and King". IF I experiment with different strumming patterns and tempos...at what point have I crossed the line from making a joyful noise over to sinning? How will I recognize it? And what scriptures tell me this?

 

[12strings]

By the way, a large number of the hymns you like and sing were songs sung in bars and pubs over a pint of ale. The people were familiar with the tunes and new lyrics were written to glorify God.

Historical note:

1. While there's probably no way to know whether some of our hymn-tunes started life as drinking songs...perhaps a few did... it is not a large number, because we know where most of them come from.

2. There is a larger number that were general-use folk tunes.

3. It is incorrect to assert that Martin Luther wrote hymn texts to "bar songs". It was born out of a missunderstanding. He actually wrote hymn texts in a "BAR" form...a musical form (German: die Barform or der Bar)...which consists of each stanza following the pattern AAB.