Music

[revmwc]

But why forsake those who aren't young because "youth are the future"? What about those in the church right now?

You don't that is my point in all of this, the older should be involved in the training of the younger. Each should have their place and each should feel they are contributing. Rock and Roll should not be the attraction being involved should. Are you saying that if you have a band that plays the music the older generation isn't involved? If it worships God (which I haven't figured out how) if the words are scripturally sound, why can't you worship, have a blended music service, learn to get out of the TRADITIONAL box and worship God. The youth in our church sing the Old traditional songs and like them but they like their contemporary songs too as do some adults. The "INTERGENRATIONAL" church gets every one involved in ministry and each generation learns about the other. Have you sat down and talked to the youth about why they like the music they do? Have you sat down and told them why you like the traditional hymns so much? You see if you each find common ground and develop friendships then you understand and work togehter to make the service for God and all in the congregation.
Then the church grows with every generation involved.

 

[sag38]

So let me get this straight: we shouldn't stick to hymns because the kids won't be able to relate, but you think they'll relate to House of the Rising Sun???

Why does Amazing Grace need you to fix it?

Who said we shouldn't stick to hymns? We sing hymns at my church. Most churches that I know of still sing hymns. And, I didn't say it was for the kids. Even the seniors worship and appreciate what our music ministry brings to worship. I would challenge you to show me or anyone else Biblically where we can't use other styles. You, for some sad reason, have chosen to be offended by anything in the church that doesn't fit your religious profile. I really do feel sorry for you that your worship is limited to your personal tastes and opinions.

Who said that Amazing Grace needed me or anyone else to fix it? We haven't fixed anything. That's just your limited opinion speaking again. Our musicians haven't fixed anything nor improved anything. They are simply singing the lyrics to a different tune. If you don't like it then that's your problem and, again, I really do feel sorry for you that you are so limited in your ability to worship. By the way, we sing Amazing Grace about 90% of the time right out of the hymnal.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Who said we shouldn't stick to hymns?

House of the Rising Sun and Marshall Tucker Band songs aren't hymns.

I would challenge you to show me or anyone else Biblically where we can't use other styles.

And I would challenge you to show me or anyone else Biblically where I said that.

I'm going to claim, for some sad reason, that you have chosen to be offended by anything in the church that doesn't fit your religious profile.

And that is certainly up to you.

I really do feel sorry for you that your worship is limited to your personal tastes and opinions.

And I feel sorry for you that you feel you have to resort to lying about what I believe and what I said.

First of all, you know very well that I've never said that worship should be limited to my personal tastes and opinions.

Second, I don't dictate our worship. Even if I was interested in basing our worship on my personal tastes and opinions, I don't have that authority.

Who said that Amazing Grace needed me or anyone else to fix it? We haven't fixed anything.

You did. Remember when you said that you sing it to the tune of House of the Rising Sun?

Our musicians haven't fixed anything nor improved anything.

That may be the first true thing you've said yet.

I really do feel sorry for you that you are so limited in your ability to worship.

Just as I feel sorry for you that you feel it's "limited". We happen to find it to be very enriching and very fulfilling worship.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Are you saying that if you have a band that plays the music the older generation isn't involved?

Does it really matter what I'm saying? I mean, no matter what I say, you and you guys are going to claim I said something else.

learn to get out of the TRADITIONAL box and worship God.

So you mean all those years, we weren't really worshipping God? Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe we should have Brittany Spears music and dancing girls like What's-her-Name's church so that we can "really worship".

 

[HAMel]

They are simply singing the lyrics to a different tune.

Bingo! Singing the same lyrics to a different tune doesn't necessarily constitute an evil.

So consider the reason for the resistance. The resistance usually comes from an attitude of, "Well, we ain't never done it that way before and we ain't gonna start now".

Come on folks. The original intent here was to think outside of the box.

Our Lord can use the media "He" wants to use in the conviction of a soul. As our youth are 180 in their thinking compared to us old timers, who are we to mandate it's our way or the highway?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Bingo! Singing the same lyrics to a different tune doesn't necessarily constitute an evil.

Of course not. We love to sing Amazing Grace to the tune of Peaceful Easy Feeling...just not in church.

So consider the reason for the resistance. The resistance usually comes from an attitude of, "Well, we ain't never done it that way before and we ain't gonna start now".

Or, it could come from an attitude of, "We've seen trouble follow where these things are done so, while we don't think it's wrong, in and of itself, we choose not to do it". Or perhaps it could be, "We understand that weaker brothers and sisters or new believers may associate certain kinds of music with the past life and we don't want to make them stumble".

As our youth are 180 in their thinking compared to us old timers, who are we to mandate it's our way or the highway?

And why do we have to defer to the thinking of the youth?

 

[revmwc]

Does it really matter what I'm saying? I mean, no matter what I say, you and you guys are going to claim I said something else.



So you mean all those years, we weren't really worshipping God? Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe we should have Brittany Spears music and dancing girls like What's-her-Name's church so that we can "really worship".

1 I wouldn't ask you something if it didn't matter, I could have just said that is what you said, but I ask to get clarification.

2 Yes we worshipping God our way in our time, as time change we can change the method of worship not the message we give.
Billy Graham "we can change the method, but not the message"

3 Who is Brittany Spears? Never said dancing girls and all that now you are adding to my meaning. I never said anything you say there. What I have been saying is we need to be all things to all people to reach them for Christ and then train them. INTERGENERATIONAL = all generations finding common interest in spiritual things and worshipping God together in those things. Getting them involved in spiritual things, HOW does that constitute "US" doing it wrong all those years?

I can't remember the exact statistic but I believe it was 90% of those who claim to have received Christ did so when they were 19 or under. That means only 10% are reached after that, should we be trying to reach the young for Christ with that statistic? Aren't there souls important? I can remember in the 60's even into the 80's when many churches didn't allow women to wear pants to church, that has changed in most churches. I can also remember many churches in the south that wouldn't allow Gospel quartets to come and sing in their church because of their style of southern gospel. But that too has changed. Then there have been changes to bad too like most churches now that have revival meetings, if they do have them. They won't bring in an evangelist but do internal preaching or get another pastor from the association. Meaning the gift of evangelism is being totally ignored. Some changes edify and build up some tear down or keep the valid gifts from being used. Change the method not the message when God can be glorified.

 

[HAMel]

JohnDeereFan, only in America have so few done so much for so many.

If your mindset was the rule of thumb we would never have had the telegraph; advancements in medicine; electric light; the automobile. Perhaps we would never have created John Deere farm equipment. I mean, the kerosene lamp worked fine for many generations, didn't it?

And why do we have to defer to the thinking of the youth?

Defer?

No, perhaps to overcome that fear of change and to better administer the Word of God to a lost and dying world.

Way to many churches in this nation are preaching to a house full of seniors who by the way, are dying off at a rapid rate. Those who have retired to the pews. Those who have been told for the past 45 they need to be saved. The kids ain't listening JDF..., or haven't you noticed?

I do suppose I'm beating a dead horse here, right?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

If your mindset was the rule of thumb we would never have had the telegraph; advancements in medicine; electric light; the automobile. Perhaps we would never have created John Deere farm equipment. I mean, the kerosene lamp worked fine for many generations, didn't it?

How so?

Defer?

Yes. Defer.

No, perhaps to overcome that fear of change and to better administer the Word of God to a lost and dying world.

You understand that our choice not to use contemporary music has nothing to do with fear of change, right?

What's wront with using the Gospel to administer the Word of God to a lost and dying world? Since when are we supposed to tailor the corporate worship service, meant for the Body of Christ, for the lost?

Way to many churches in this nation are preaching to a house full of seniors

And that's bad?

The kids ain't listening JDF..., or haven't you noticed?

No, I really haven't. We're seeing young people saved and baptised all the time.

I do suppose I'm beating a dead horse here, right?

No, I think it's a conversation we need to have in the Church. I just wish you guys were able to discuss it intelligently and Biblically.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What I have been saying is we need to be all things to all people to reach them for Christ and then train them.

Let me guess: a misapplication of 1 Cor 9:22?

I can't remember the exact statistic but I believe it was 90% of those who claim to have received Christ did so when they were 19 or under. That means only 10% are reached after that, should we be trying to reach the young for Christ with that statistic?

Are we talking about music in the worship service or reaching the lost.

 

[revmwc]

No, I think it's a conversation we need to have in the Church. I just wish you guys were able to discuss it intelligently and Biblically.

I am trying to figure out where you think I have been attacking your thought? I have consitantly stated that we need "intergenratianal" churches. That we need as Paul stated to be all things to all people. The youth can certainly learn from the older folks but guess what the older folks can also learn from the younger. Paaul also told Timothy see that they despise not your youth.
Let me again redefine "INTERGENERATIONAL" that mean all generations interacting with each other. That at least by age 13 the youth should be given responsibilties in the church such as ushers, such as possibly teaching younger sunday school classses with maybe an older adult mentoring them as they learn to teach Sunday School. That the young ladies interact with the older ladies to learn Godly principles. That taste in music varies, will I don't like and have never liked R & R music, it can prepare their hearts for the message, just as the old hymns I love prepare my heart for the message. (Prepare for lack of a better word). I would love to have a steady diet of olf fashioned Hymns I think they soothe and prepare us, but guess what the music the youth like does the same thing for them. So we do what not let them get prepared for the service because we don't like their music? While we get out of fellowship with God because not everything is old fashioned (for lack of a better term) with the music! Isn't the worship time in song just as important as the worship time in offering and sermon time? Isn't everything at church to center around ALL believers not just the few? That is why I say a blended service can meet EVERYONES need and prepare each heart for the message to come. All of us over 50 need to be able and willing to change the method but never the message.

 

[HAMel]

Lets see here. The word DEFER means,

to put off (action, consideration, etc.) to a future time:

—Synonyms
Defer, delay, postpone imply keeping something from occurring until a future time. To defer is to decide to do something later on: to defer making a payment. To delay is sometimes equivalent to defer, but usually it is to act in a dilatory manner and thus lay something aside: to delay one's departure. To postpone a thing is to put it off to (usually) some particular time in the future, with the intention of beginning or resuming it then: to postpone an election. 3. procrastinate.

Well, I stand corrected. You're church is chugging along just fine. Many others are not.

 

[revmwc]

JDF would this one be done in your church?

Morning has broken, like the first morning
Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird
Praise for the singing, praise for the morning
Praise for the springing fresh from the word

Sweet the rain's new fall, sunlit from heaven
Like the first dewfall, on the first grass
Praise for the sweetness of the wet garden
Sprung in completeness where his feet pass

Mine is the sunlight, mine is the morning
Born of the one light, Eden saw play
Praise with elation, praise every morning
God's recreation of the new day

 

[JohnDeereFan]

JDF would this one be done in your church?

Morning has broken, like the first morning
Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird
Praise for the singing, praise for the morning
Praise for the springing fresh from the word

Sweet the rain's new fall, sunlit from heaven
Like the first dewfall, on the first grass
Praise for the sweetness of the wet garden
Sprung in completeness where his feet pass

Mine is the sunlight, mine is the morning
Born of the one light, Eden saw play
Praise with elation, praise every morning
God's recreation of the new day

No. If we don't have contemporary Christian music in our church, then why would we have secular humanist music in our church? My, what silly questions you ask.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I would love to have a steady diet of olf fashioned Hymns I think they soothe and prepare us, but guess what the music the youth like does the same thing for them. So we do what not let them get prepared for the service because we don't like their music? While we get out of fellowship with God because not everything is old fashioned (for lack of a better term) with the music! Isn't the worship time in song just as important as the worship time in offering and sermon time? Isn't everything at church to center around ALL believers not just the few? That is why I say a blended service can meet EVERYONES need and prepare each heart for the message to come. All of us over 50 need to be able and willing to change the method but never the message.

You're free to have whatever kind of service you like. I just don't understand why you have to attack us because we have a different kind of service.

 

[revmwc]

No. If we don't have contemporary Christian music in our church, then why would we have secular humanist music in our church? My, what silly questions you ask.

Because this is an old hymn written in 1931.

Morning Has Broken" is a popular and well-known Christian hymn first published in 1931. It has words by English author Eleanor Farjeon and is set to a traditional Gaelic tune known as "Bunessan" (it shares this tune with the 19th century Christmas Carol "Child in the Manger"[1]). It is often sung in children's services. English pop musician and folk singer Cat Stevens included a version on his 1971 album Teaser and the Firecat. The song became identified with Stevens when it reached number six on the US pop chart and number one on the US easy listening chart in 1972.

The hymn originally appeared in the second edition of Songs of Praise (published in 1931), to the tune "Bunessan", arranged by the composer Martin Shaw. In Songs of Praise Discussed, the editor, Percy Dearmer, explains that as there was need for a hymn to give thanks for each day, English poet and children's author Eleanor Farjeon had been "asked to make a poem to fit the lovely gaelic tune". A slight variation on the original hymn, also written by Eleanor Farjeon, can be found in the form of a poem contributed to the anthology Children's Bells, under Farjeon's new title, "A Morning Song (For the First Day of Spring)", published by Oxford University Press in 1957.
"Bunessan" had been found in L. McBean's Songs and Hymns of the Gael, published in 1900.[3] Before Farjeon's words, the tune was used as a Christmas carol, which began "Child in the manger, Infant of Mary", translated from the Gaelic lyrics written by Mary MacDonald. The English-language Roman Catholic hymnal also uses the tune for the hymn, "This Day God Gives Me".

I too often wondered why folks sang it in church until I read this.

 

[revmwc]

You're free to have whatever kind of service you like. I just don't understand why you have to attack us because we have a different kind of service.

I am still trying to figure out where I attacked your form of music or worship. I am sorry if you think I was, it was not intentional. I was just stating how I felt about the need to reach all generations in the church, not just one, church is for the edification of the whole body of believers. How you guys chose to worship and edify your folks is entirely up to you.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Because this is an old hymn written in 1931.

Yeah...and?

 

[Alive in Christ]

What if Christian youth of today begin to add Christian lyrics to rock music, or Rap music. Would this be wrong?

No, it would not be wrong at all. People have been doing that for a long time.

But regarding the rap noise, if it was in church I would have no choice but to go out to the parking lot until it ends.

I just cant tolerate that wretched noise assaulting my ears.

 

[nodak]

Excuse me, but not everyone who is not on board with rock and roll church is a left over dinosaur, nor do we idolize the 50's.

Scripture tells us how to behave in church.

There are descriptions, such as David dancing before the Lord.

And there are prescriptions, such as telling us to behave soberly.


We have scriptural warrant for the youth learning from the elders, not the other way around.

Jesus Christ is Who we are to worship, not the youth.

And all that said, not all young folks like the new music. What about those that don't? Do we just assume they don't count?

For some interesting thoughts on this subject, see NewsWithViews Paul Proctor Archive.