Must you hear the gospel to be saved?

[kyredneck]

But 'saved' means going to heaven, and 'lost' means going to hell, cut & dried, right?

(never mind you can't prove it scripturally, that's the status quo and you're going to stick with that)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's status quo pinoy, EVERYBODY knows that saved means going to heaven, and EVERYBODY knows that lost means going to hell.

Mind numbing sheeple.:laugh: but who is teaching it to them brother? Is the holy spirit in any of this. Id like to ask Arthur Pink. Note: they called him a hyper also:sleep::sleep:

And the WORD became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Thankyou Jesus

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Holy Spirit is telling me to take another look at Incarnation.

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

But 'saved' means going to heaven, and 'lost' means going to hell, cut & dried, right?

(never mind you can't prove it scripturally, that's the status quo and you're going to stick with that)

You really shouldn't assume that, why don't you explain your position provide scripture and change my mind?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You really shouldn't assume that, why don't you explain your position provide scripture and change my mind?

He has done that several times before.....so has penoy.

 

[JamesL]

Since you scoff at the belief that all men were born spiritually dead, then this'll be like talking to a wall.

your doctrinal toes were stepped on, and your pride has taken over. It's ok if you want to stay entrenched in your tradition, but don't try to act like that's my problem.

I'll gladly discuss any of it you want. I have no ambition, other than being certain of what God has said

he's always preached both eternal salvation and gospel salvation.

What the heck is that supposed to mean?
I think we've discovered a veil of mysticism that you need to make more clear

he stated to the Ephesians in no uncertain terms that they all were dead in trespasses and sins, and since they were not flesh-eating zombies, how could he be saying the flesh was what is dead but not the spirit, as I understand, you said.

Well, at least you correctly stated that it is how you understand, rather than falsely claiming that's what I said.

But you understand wrong. You need to stop jumping to conclusions, and ask.

Here's a good tip - write down on a piece of paper, exactly what yo think I meant.
Now, if it doesn't match, word for word, what I wrote, then you have misunderstood what I wrote.

And if the problem is that you don't understand, then don't come spreading your error as what I said. That's only fair.

and by extension you are saying...

If you can put it in a quote, then you can accuse me of saying it. Otherwise, it is futile speculation and misrepresentation of my position.

How about you ask if you're not sure.

I'll be back and discuss with you further later.

I'll wait

 

[pinoybaptist]

this thread is in serious 'danger' of being moved to the Cal-Arm forum (or getting closed for x number of pages).
Once this is moved, I don't care to follow it there, as I don't care about some of the posters in that forum.
Jacob Elliot, you have some strange fire in your posts but you've been quite civil and I tip my hat off to you.
Enjoy yourselves, brothers.
remember, in the end, doctrine stays earthbound, for when we get to heaven, we might have a "blast" shouting out the "I told you so's" to each other when Jesus Himself points out our errors.

 

[Revmitchell]

I wonder why posting that there are two salvations is ok. Very strange.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I wonder why posting that there are two salvations is ok. Very strange.

Do you wish to understand this position or are trying to dislodge it right from the beginning? And if so why would that be?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

this thread is in serious 'danger' of being moved to the Cal-Arm forum (or getting closed for x number of pages).

What would make you say that. Any Moderator/Administrator worth their salt must know that this discussion has ZERO to do with Calvinism/Arminian controversy......that would be a gross mistake on their part to label it thus.

HoweverI agree with you & would walk away from the discussion if there is no interest in the subject matter, And I have an interest.....not sure about anyone else & I can read so its not necessary to stay on line here. Perhaps we who are interested could retreat to a Old Baptist forum that has studied it in greater detail..... I would be willing to do that rather than inflaming these people. Lets play this by ear my dear brother.

 

[kyredneck]

Must you hear the gospel to be saved? Yes!

Must you hear the gospel to go to heaven? No!

 

[JamesL]

But 'saved' means going to heaven, and 'lost' means going to hell, cut & dried, right?

(never mind you can't prove it scripturally, that's the status quo and you're going to stick with that)

I agree that most have narrowed the definitions of saved, and lost for that matter. I will say that I have not studied the breadth of "lost" near as much as I have "saved"

Only since being on this board, have I heard the terms "gospel salvation" and "eternal salvation"

I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but that sounds a little mystical to me. Could you explain what those terms are supposed to mean?

Honest inquiry, for sure.

 

[percho]

It tells me that 'you people' glibly toss around 'saved' and 'lost' as if you actually know the biblical meaning of the terms, but you don't. It's all 'status quo' with 'you people', true biblical meaning of terms takes back seat to 'status quo'.

I like the concept found in the gospels speaking of the rich young ruler.

Good Master,

Matt. have eternal life
Mark inherit eternal life
Luke inherit eternal life

Jesus equates to inheriting and or entering the Kingdom of God.

The disciples equate to being saved.

I find it hard pressed to find anywhere in the word of going to heaven.

And some how the following is relative to the above as well as being relative to being born again, from above.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14

Except ye become as little children. Except a man be born again. Flesh and blood cannot inherit.

 

[percho]

I agree that most have narrowed the definitions of saved, and lost for that matter. I will say that I have not studied the breadth of "lost" near as much as I have "saved"

Only since being on this board, have I heard the terms "gospel salvation" and "eternal salvation"

I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but that sounds a little mystical to me. Could you explain what those terms are supposed to mean?

Honest inquiry, for sure.

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life (eternal) and immortality (incorruptibility) to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1:10

Because Jesus has been given the sure mercies of David, we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[percho]

When one hears the gospel, he hears of the faith, by which one has received the Spirit, as a gift, setting him apart unto salvation.

Read 1 Peter 1.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Must you hear the gospel to be saved? Yes!

Must you hear the gospel to go to heaven? No!

Saved.....how saved? LOL

 

[kyredneck]

I agree that most have narrowed the definitions of saved, and lost for that matter. I will say that I have not studied the breadth of "lost" near as much as I have "saved"

Only since being on this board, have I heard the terms "gospel salvation" and "eternal salvation"

I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but that sounds a little mystical to me. Could you explain what those terms are supposed to mean?

Honest inquiry, for sure.

It's just 'terms', you are correct there; Primitive Baptist terms to make a distinction between that part of our salvation in which we are passive (redemption, regeneration), and that part in which we are active (belief and obedience to the gospel).

Examples:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Those being 'gospel saved' in v 12 had already been 'eternally saved' ( v 13).

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5:6

'They that hunger and thirst' are alive already. This is why they're deemed to be fortunate; the Spirit has wrought within them already. 'Gospel salvation' fills their desire for righteousness.

... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36

.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24

These are alive (eternally saved) already BEFORE coming, BEFORE believing (gospel salvation).

.....If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God....If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God.....It behoveth you to be born from above… he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought; Jn 3:3,5,7,21 YLT

Before one can enter or even see the kingdom, or come to Christ (the two are synonymous in this discourse), one must FIRST be born from above.

But mind you, mark this, the text does not say that these WILL enter into the kingdom of God (gospel salvation), it just says that before one can enter into, or even see the kingdom, one must first be born from above (eternally saved). There are those as in the 'Exodus generation' who are disobedient and unbelieving, these will never know the 'ten thousand charms in the arms of our dear Saviour', the Sabbath rest of God.

God has already wrought (eternally saved) within all those that come to Christ (gospel saved).


Recommend essays:

Born Again: The Doctrine of Effectual Calling by Michael L Gowens

Temporal “Salvation” A Bogus or Biblical Concept? By Michael L. Gowens

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

.


he stated to the Ephesians in no uncertain terms that they all were dead in trespasses and sins, and since they were not flesh-eating zombies, how could he be saying the flesh was what is dead but not the spirit, as I understand, you said.

:laugh: As one of my favorites of all times growing up in the Good ole USA, Mr. Curly Howard once said, “But I don’t want to be dead, there’s no future in it!” Ahhhhh, now there is a theologian of merit!!!!:laugh::love2::tongue3:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's just 'terms', you are correct there; Primitive Baptist terms to make a distinction between that part of our salvation in which we are passive (redemption, regeneration), and that part in which we are active (belief and obedience to the gospel).

Examples:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Those being 'gospel saved' in v 12 had already been 'eternally saved' ( v 13).

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5:6

'They that hunger and thirst' are alive already. This is why they're deemed to be fortunate; the Spirit has wrought within them already. 'Gospel salvation' fills their desire for righteousness.

... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36

.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24

These are alive (eternally saved) already BEFORE coming, BEFORE believing (gospel salvation).

.....If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God....If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God.....It behoveth you to be born from above… he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought; Jn 3:3,5,7,21 YLT

Before one can enter or even see the kingdom, or come to Christ (the two are synonymous in this discourse), one must FIRST be born from above.

But mind you, mark this, the text does not say that these WILL enter into the kingdom of God (gospel salvation), it just says that before one can enter into, or even see the kingdom, one must first be born from above (eternally saved). There are those as in the 'Exodus generation' who are disobedient and unbelieving, these will never know the 'ten thousand charms in the arms of our dear Saviour', the Sabbath rest of God.

God has already wrought (eternally saved) within all those that come to Christ (gospel saved).


Recommend essays:

Born Again: The Doctrine of Effectual Calling by Michael L Gowens

Temporal “Salvation” A Bogus or Biblical Concept? By Michael L. Gowens

And to sum it up....Gods grace does not depend on your obedience.

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

this thread is in serious 'danger' of being moved to the Cal-Arm forum (or getting closed for x number of pages).
Once this is moved, I don't care to follow it there, as I don't care about some of the posters in that forum.
Jacob Elliot, you have some strange fire in your posts but you've been quite civil and I tip my hat off to you.
Enjoy yourselves, brothers.
remember, in the end, doctrine stays earthbound, for when we get to heaven, we might have a "blast" shouting out the "I told you so's" to each other when Jesus Himself points out our errors.

Well I'm still really confused on your position (I'm a tad thick) but I do appreciate your inout! :godisgood: :wavey: