NAME IT AND CLAIM IT?

[Mommyperson]

I recently joined in a Bible study where a lot of name it and claim it stuff was going on.

Can someone educate me as to where this all began?

In prayer, they seemed to concentrate on TELLING the Lord(reminding Him)of the promises he made and then in my opinion demanded that God keep them..

My first thought when I noticed what type of study I had gotten myself involved in was, a FIRE and BRIMSTONE type correction was headed in their direction..but realized how saddened I was at their ignorance.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Kenneth and Gloria Copeland cult. It is un Biblical and the spirit of Anti-Christ and you should leave that Bible Study immediately. And whatever you do, don't drink the juice.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[dianetavegia]

Word-Faith Movement: A movement based in large part on the teachings of E. W. Kenyon (1867-1948) that became a distinct movement under the teaching and leadership of Kenneth Hagin, a Pentecostal faith-healing evangelist. God himself is said to have created the world and to do all that he does by speaking words of faith. Man’s creation in God’s image is commonly understood to mean that human beings are “little gods” capable of speaking creative words of faith. The fall of Adam into sin is interpreted as having transformed Adam (and all unredeemed people) into Satan’s nature and as having transferred Adam’s godhood or dominion on earth to Satan. Jesus is believed to have become man in order to restore human beings to godhood as renewed “incarnations” of God. He is said to have done this by dying spiritually as well as physically on the cross, suffering in hell, and then while in hell becoming the first person to be “born again,” before finally being raised from the dead. Those who believe in Jesus are supposedly empowered to speak words of faith again, especially in order to obtain bodily health and financial prosperity (both of which are supposedly guaranteed as present possessions in the Atonement). In contrast, traditional Christian theology teaches that God and God alone can bring about whatever he chooses; that man was created to reflect God’s character and to implement his will, not to be little gods; that man is fallen but not Satanic in nature; that God is still in control of this world; that Jesus Christ alone is God incarnate; that Jesus died physically, not spiritually, to redeem us; that Jesus therefore was not born again; and that health and prosperity are promised to believers in the future resurrection. In the meantime God heals and prospers people providentially and miraculously when and as he sees fit. Most of the followers of the Word-Faith teachers are Pentecostals and others.....

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#EvanChrist

 

[Watchman]

Mommyperson, I must second what Joe just said: RUN, don't walk from this bunch!

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Watchman:
Mommyperson, I must second what Joe just said: RUN, don't walk from this bunch!

What Watchman said is true!! Run, Mommyperson, run away-----faaaaaaaar away!!! Run and don't look back!!!!

Get this----I was in Houston, TX with a deacon---I had traveled with him for his 4 month exam at MD Anderson---we were in the hotel and I happened to be watching Jessie Duplantis(part of the Name it, Claim it cult)

Here's what Jesse said on the January 25th broadcast of TBN

Follow the sceniro

His wife and he were speaking in Chicago---they landed at the airport---a couple from the church met them and was taking them to the church they were to speak at---

They pulled up to a red light---and while waiting a vehicle pulled up beside them

A aqua blue Corvette--hard top

Jesse makes the comment

Man--that's a nice looking car! I would love to have a car just like that one---only I would want a convertable---same color---just a convertable!

That was his comment

They pulled in to the church--went inside and after a few minutes a member of the church approaches Jesse

Brother Duplantis---God has told me to give you something---only you have to come with me outside to see what it is!

Jesse goes outside to the church parking lot---and there sitting in one of the parking spaces was a brand new aqua blue Corvette convertable

The man said--God told me to give this to you---its mine---only 150 miles---but God said for me to give it to you

Jesse said he thought for a minute and then tells the Lord---

Lord--I didn't think anybody was listenin' to what I was saying

And the Lord said---Jesse, I heard you say it and then I had to do something about it---

Must be nice, huh?????

Run---don't stop runnin'---run away---far away from that crowd!!!

Brother David

 

[Rookiepastor]

Run Mommy Run

Stay around from them and pray for them. Find another study to attend.

God Bless

 

[Roy]

I always had a feeling that Corvette owners were righteous, holy men of the cloth.

Roy

 

[donnA]

Get out of that study! That is unbiblcal and you do not want that influence on you. Some may disagree, but as a baptist you do not want to be joining with just anyone in bible studies, especially these kinds. Name it and claim it is not a christian doctrine, but a false doctrine,I am sure some people are very sincere in their belief, but they do not know or understand it is not true bible doctrines, and they draw in unsuspecting christians who don't know the difference yet.
I agree, it is a demanding of God to do as they tell Him too.

 

[Mommyperson]

Oh BROTHER! I've attended my first cult meeting?!
Ok..I'm donning my Reeboks and running for my life..My belief actually.

When I first saw where this study was going, I tried to correct the path, but was immediately told I was wrong..in my heart I knew something was way out of place.. and tried again to redirect towards Biblical truth,only to find myself back in the same spot.

I knew coming here and asking would help me to SEE CLEARLY NOW..

I am still looking for a church, only a lot more cautiously..
Who'da thunk finding a church or a study group would be THIS HARD?

 

[hsmom3]

I have not heard of this either. Is this the same thing that Beth Moore and others teach about praying the Word back to God?

Thanks!
hsmom3

 

[IveyLeaguer]

Mommyperson: Who'da thunk finding a church or a study group would be THIS HARD?

I would. It took me two years to find a healthy, biblical, church in a highly populated area. Your best odds will be a Baptist church, and don't overlook the smaller ones.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

No Beth Moore and Kay Arthur are godly examples of women teachers. NOT the same at all. Beth is a Baptist and will tell you up front that she is not a pastor... merely a teacher.

 

[dianetavegia]

I like Beth Moore but have no use for Kay Arthur.

Here's some basic info on Arthur's teachings.

Lord, Heal My Hurts
- In this 1988 book published by Harvest House, Arthur spends considerable time encouraging readers to dredge-up "feelings of hurts," "unmet needs," "rejection," "wounds," "horrors," "emotional scars," "destructive traumas," "emotional abuse," "disappointments," "depression," etc. from the "unseen" past, in order to lay a foundation for the healing process. According to Arthur, this is best done by the victim writing-out or charting her thoughts and feelings of past hurts and of those who hurt her, and then meditating on them before taking them to God. She even encourages the reader to write-out her mate's or friend's past hurts if she can't think of any of her own! In Arthur's words, "... whatever has been buried, stuffed down, or denied, needs to be exposed so that the healing balm of Gilead can be applied and bring healing ... it must be lanced, opened, cleaned out ..." (One wonders why it is necessary to "lance, open, and clean-out" past wounds. Does not Arthur believe that the old man, i.e., the old Adam, is to be reckoned dead [i.e., powerless -- Rom. 6]? The efficacy of the cross and the truth of the Word are both put in question by her insistence upon healing the wounds of the old self.) All of this so-called "past-mapping" is clearly more Freudian than it is Biblical.

- Another concern we have about Arthur is her view of the gospel message -- at times it appears that she undermines the gospel of the unconditional saving grace of Jesus Christ with a man-made requirement for pre-salvation works. We can see this by looking at her definition of faith in her Covenant Precept study: "... [faith is] absolute surrender of one's separate self ... a total death to self ... a walk into death ... coming to God with nothing held back." She then gives at least five requirements for salvation (all of which seem to set forth "ingredients" of salvation, rather than that which is produced by salvation): (a) walk through the veil of His flesh; (b) death to all other relationships -- Jesus is first; (c) death to one's own life, own interests, self-denial; (d) lose life for Jesus' sake in order to find it; and (e) be crucified with Christ. Again, all this seems to be a focus on what an unbeliever must do to gain salvation; i.e., according to Arthur, one can only have salvation if he dies to self, fully surrenders, and has a "conduct inspired by that surrender."

Arthur has apparently accepted some the heretical teachings of the "demon deliverance" ministries. Arthur teaches that since we have the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16), any evil thoughts must be from the devil. She says, "Satan made me think those thoughts were my thoughts." (Does this not imply then that there is no need for the Christian to accept responsibility for his own evil thought life?) And when she finds herself having thoughts contrary to Phil. 4:8, she commands the devil to depart in the name of Jesus: "'Satan, those thoughts are not from God. You have no place in me; therefore, in the name of Jesus Christ and by the blood of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave me alone.' Why address Satan? Jesus did. He rebuked him [Satan] and told him to leave." Arthur ignores the fact that there is no instruction in the New Testament for believers to even rebuke Satan, let alone command him in the name of Jesus. (See pp. 147-149, 164.) [In a 1991 book by Arthur, Lord, Is It Warfare?: Teach Me To Stand (see specifically ppgs. 280-323), she leaves little doubt as to the extremely unbiblical nature of her teaching in this area.]

In Warfare, Arthur, like Anderson in his aforementioned books, teaches that a Christian can be indwelt by demons; that Christians have the authority to cast-out demons from believers and unbelievers alike; that since demons can be responsible for sickness, healing can, in many cases, be obtained by commanding the enemy to leave; that Satan's demons have territorial powers that must be broken or the gospel cannot be effective; and that Satan's demons are also assigned to our homes, binding the hearts and minds of our children, thereby requiring a special kind of prayer, which she calls "offensive warfare" praying (i.e., commanding the demons to depart). In fact, on page 319 of Warfare, Arthur endorses two of Neil Anderson's highly heretical books, Victory Over the Darkness and The Bondage Breaker, both of which teach a so-called Christian "seven-step program" for living a victorious life. [In actuality, the books teach charismatic approaches to both sanctification (i.e., "crisis" sanctification) and demonology (i.e., deliverance from/exorcism of a believer's demons

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/arthur/

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

What does Beth Moore teach?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[dianetavegia]

Beth Moore teaches women and is a Southern Baptist. We've used several of her books for ladies studies at our church. Here's her website with lots of info.

http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/mainpage/0,1701,M%253D200394,00.html

Women Reaching Women Training
Women Reaching Women is not a program but a ministry. The focus is life-changing discipleship that leads women into a life that reflects Christ through their thoughts, words and actions. Women's Enrichment Ministry encourages women in spiritual growth, discipleship, evangelism, missions and prayer. At these training events, your entire team will be motivated, inspired and encouraged in their ministry to women.

 

[SpiritWalker]

Originally posted by Mommyperson:
I recently joined in a Bible study where a lot of name it and claim it stuff was going on.



In prayer, they seemed to concentrate on TELLING the Lord(reminding Him)of the promises he made and then in my opinion demanded that God keep them..

Here is my only advice:

RUN RUN RUN!

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by Mommyperson:
Oh BROTHER! I've attended my first cult meeting?!
Ok..I'm donning my Reeboks and running for my life..My belief actually.

When I first saw where this study was going, I tried to correct the path, but was immediately told I was wrong..in my heart I knew something was way out of place.. and tried again to redirect towards Biblical truth,only to find myself back in the same spot.

I knew coming here and asking would help me to SEE CLEARLY NOW..

I am still looking for a church, only a lot more cautiously..
Who'da thunk finding a church or a study group would be THIS HARD?

God has already placed the answer in your heart, you just need confirmation.

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by hsmom3:
I have not heard of this either. Is this the same thing that Beth Moore and others teach about praying the Word back to God?

Thanks!
hsmom3

No, it isn't. They pray God's word, nothing wrong with praying scripture. What the name it and claim it teach is whatever you want you can have by claiming it is yours and God will gve it to you. Like, I can have a million dollars b y claiming it and there it si God will give it to me, you can cure cancer, get rid of a wart, pay your bills, and have that new car all in one prayer, and God has to give it to you.
It really is a big difference. Beth Morre's is learning scripture, hiding them in your heart(memorizing), gaining strength. I don't think she would ever advocate demanding God do what she wants, as a matter of fact, I've seen her bow to what God wanterd even when it wasn't what she wanted, as we all learn, thats the best way, then see it was the best thing we could ever do, better then what we wanted.
Anyway, you get the idea.

 

[ChurchBoy]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Word-Faith Movement: A movement based in large part on the teachings of E. W. Kenyon (1867-1948) that became a distinct movement under the teaching and leadership of Kenneth Hagin, a Pentecostal faith-healing evangelist. God himself is said to have created the world and to do all that he does by speaking words of faith. Man’s creation in God’s image is commonly understood to mean that human beings are “little gods” capable of speaking creative words of faith. The fall of Adam into sin is interpreted as having transformed Adam (and all unredeemed people) into Satan’s nature and as having transferred Adam’s godhood or dominion on earth to Satan. Jesus is believed to have become man in order to restore human beings to godhood as renewed “incarnations” of God. He is said to have done this by dying spiritually as well as physically on the cross, suffering in hell, and then while in hell becoming the first person to be “born again,” before finally being raised from the dead. Those who believe in Jesus are supposedly empowered to speak words of faith again, especially in order to obtain bodily health and financial prosperity (both of which are supposedly guaranteed as present possessions in the Atonement). In contrast, traditional Christian theology teaches that God and God alone can bring about whatever he chooses; that man was created to reflect God’s character and to implement his will, not to be little gods; that man is fallen but not Satanic in nature; that God is still in control of this world; that Jesus Christ alone is God incarnate; that Jesus died physically, not spiritually, to redeem us; that Jesus therefore was not born again; and that health and prosperity are promised to believers in the future resurrection. In the meantime God heals and prospers people providentially and miraculously when and as he sees fit. Most of the followers of the Word-Faith teachers are Pentecostals and others.....

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#EvanChrist </font>[/QUOTE]The biggest irony of the WoF movement "founders" is that both Kenyon and Hagin stated out as Baptist preachers.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here is a favorite prooftext of the
WoF = word of Faith, and N&C (name it
and claim it) crowd in context.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 (Geneva Bible):

Therefore let no man reioyce in men:
for all things are yours.
22 Whether it be Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas,
or the world, or life, or death:
whether they be things present,
or thinges to come, euen all are yours,
23 And ye Christes, and Christ Gods.

The part they like to say is "all things
are yours".

Look at the context. Example of "all
things" are given:

1. Paul
2. Apolos
3. Cephas (Peter)
4. the world
5. life
6. death
7. things present
8. things future

Humm... no mention of a fancier car